Heisman Candidates?

[Tigers#1]

Who should be the final four candidates for the heisman? I say:

Carson Palmer
Larry Johnson
Ken Dorsey
Brian Banks

My finalst is Palmer, a nudge over Johnson, and thats mainly because Palmer ended so strong, and Johnson only averaed 46 yards against ranked opponents.

[rockin500]

Leftwich should still be considered.

[Special_K19]

I thought it was 5 finalists, but I agree with your 4 and if there is a fifth throw in McGahee.

[awefullspellare]

Leftwich should win!

[Tigers#1]

Originally posted by Special_K19
I thought it was 5 finalists, but I agree with your 4 and if there is a fifth throw in McGahee. I heard that too, but i always knew it as 4 finalists, but if there was a fifth, i'd throw McGahee in as well. Leftwich has been somewhat overrated, and really isn't even being considered that strongly.

[BPBlueSox]

The only reason Carson Palmer seems like he finished stronger is because Larry Johnson is done playing games! Trust me, if anyone finished strong, it was him...

I would say my finalists are:

Larry Johnson
Ken Dorsey
Carson Palmer
Willis McGahee

[Special_K19]

How can you not include Brad Banks, he's been great this year.

[BPBlueSox]

LJ has to be there becuase he is the man.

Dorsey has to be there becuase he has played real well and hasn't lost a game in 30 some games or something.

Palmer has been fantastic late in the season and has been putting up huge numbers.

McGahee has been explosive and played well in "big" games.

Banks has been pretty damn good but I don't think up to the level of these guys...

[GiveHyzduashot]

Tigers, I can tell you right off the bat you are completely off base on LJ. He didn't average 46 yards per game against anyone (counting his receiving yards and return yards). He didn't even average 46 rushing yards a game against anyone.

I believe you're trying to reiterate his rushing yards against UM, Iowa, and OSU. That average is 71, nowhere near the 46 you pulled out of somewhere. And let me post something for the third time:

You only mention his rushing yards, which isn't unfair. But, look at the receiving yards he had in those games.

Iowa: 93 on 6 receptions
Michigan: 46 on 5 receptions
Ohio State: 32 on 6 receptions.

Adding together the rushing and receiving yards:

Iowa: 161
Michigan: 124
Ohio State: 98.

That's an average of 128 rushing and receiving yards per game. The only game where you could say he was unproductive is against Ohio State, and they have a very, very good defense.

That's not even taking into account his return yards in those three games. Weighing that in:

Iowa: 72 yards/5 returns
Michigan: 0 yards/0 returns
Ohio State: 0 yards/0 returns.

Now you have 455 total yards in those three games, or an average of 152 yards per game.

You could also spin the rushing yards as saying when LJ runs the ball well, PSU wins. When he struggles, PSU struggles. It illustrates how important he is to PSU's offense.

Also, consider this. Of the 10 touchdowns in the 3 losses, LJ had 4 of those ten touchdowns: three rushing and one receiving.

I don't have the time or effort right now to look up the leading rushers against UM, OSU, and Iowa. But I'd bet LJ has rushed for more yards against UM's defense and OSU's defense than what any other back has done. Probably tomorrow I'll look it up.

If LJ doesn't win the Heisman, the point you mentioned will be why. But I don't think you can only mention the rushing yards, because LJ's been an all around back all season, and that has to be brought to attention too. 150 yards per game against three of the best ten teams in the nation, and two of the better defenses in the nation, isn't too shabby if you ask me.


Further, Iowa has one of the best run defenses in the country. Even further, Iowa totally jumped on PSU and PSU was down 21-0. Explain to me how State can run the ball when they're down three touchdowns? Explain to me how it's fair to punish LJ because his defense against Iowa was terrible?

And how can you say 268 rushing yards a game in his last four games (it's really not even a per game average, because LJ didn't finish two of the four games) ISN'T finishing strong? If that's not finishing strong, I'll never live to see a strong finish.

My four would be, in order: LJ, Palmer, Banks, McGahee. However, it's likely the finish will be Dorsey, LJ, Banks, Palmer.

[Tigers#1]

Originally posted by GiveHyzduashot
Tigers, I can tell you right off the bat you are completely off base on LJ. He didn't average 46 yards per game against anyone (counting his receiving yards and return yards). He didn't even average 46 rushing yards a game against anyone.

I didn't look it up, Jim Rome said it, and one of the guys on ESPN said the exact same thing.

[GiveHyzduashot]

Well then Jim Rome and "one of the guys on ESPN" are completely off base.

State has played four teams when they were ranked (Nebraska was the other), and LJ's average is 84 yards a game.

When you've ran for more than 65 yards every single game, it is IMPOSSIBLE to average 46 yards a game against any team. There's just no way it can be done.

[Tigers#1]

Ok dude settle down, it's not that big of a deal.:um:

[GiveHyzduashot]

How did I make it a big deal? By proving something you heard was wrong?

[SpreadOffense]

Leftwich is a great player but you know he won't be included. The finalists will be : Larry Johnson, Carson Palmer, Ken Dorsey, and either Brad Banks or Willis McGahee. Banks may get the nod because the voters love QB's.

[Baseball Guru]

As far as the finalists go, there can be 4 or 5 depended on how many they wish to invite....Last year I think there were 4 and 2 years ago there were 5...No # is set in stone....

This year I do believe there will be 5...

Banks, Dorsey, Johnson, Palmer and McGahee......

ESPN actually has Banks as the front runner by a very narrow margin over Johnson(2), McGahee(3), Dorsey(4) and Palmer(5)....I mean the voting is very close.....

I actually agree with Tigers asessment of Palmer finishing strong and yes I do know that LJ finished very strong as well but as you pointed out Josh, LJ has been finished for weeks and trust me, that may have an affect on the voting....Voters seem to have the mentality of "what have you done lately" and Palmer has had an excellent season as he is 7th in the nation in QB rating, 2nd in TD passes, 5th in yards and 9th in completion %.....Plus he has only 1 sub 200 yards passing game and half of his games he passed for over 300 yards and vs 2 ranked opponents he threw for over 400 yards including his last game vs one of the best defenses in the country.... Voters will remember that performance...Whether or not he wins, remains to be seen....

Dorsey has played very well but winning 30-something games should have no barring at all in the voting...It may, but it should not....Has he had a great career?? Sure, a great season, I would say very good, but not great...As I have said before, I think McGahee is the more valuable player on that team.....

Banks is the darkhorse IMO but definitely should be considered...He is #2 in QB rating and has put up solid, solid #'s in leading Iowa to what should be a BCS birth...Without him, that team is no where as good...

And LJ, what can you say about him?? Leads the nation in rushing yards, top 10 in TD's, leads the nation in yards per carry....Just a phenominal season...Again, I question whether the voters will 1. Remember his not so great games vs big name opponents and 2. If not palying in weeks leading up to the voting will hurt him....A point that may hurt Banks as well....
Also, vs Iowa he had 18 carries and he only averaged 21 during the whole season and that # is inflated since he had back to back 31 carry games vs Illinois and Virginia.....

My personal opinion the Heisman should look like this:

Palmer will win the Heisman, followed by:
LJ
Banks
McGahee
Dorsey


But of course I'm sure it will look nothing like that.....:D
Remember, Mcgahee and Dorsey still have one more shot left also to impress the voters....McGahee may have a huge day against the suddenly non-existent Tech rush D......

On a side note, hurray for my team, Syracuse which is the official worse team in the country #117 vs the pass:clap2: :hmm:
We cant go anywhere but up from there;)

[Baseball Guru]

Well I am thinking that McGahee may have impressed a voter or 2 by yesterdays performance:hmm: