Heisman

[Greymire]

I have been selecting Larry Johnson on a couple other boards as my Dark Horse candidate to win the Hesiman this year (Penn State rb). He moved a step closer last night by winning the Maxwell award. 10 of the last 17 who have won this, went on to win the Heisman. I thought he should be the choice and would make a late run. So far it is coming to fruition.

[Baseball Guru]

See I am of the opposite opinion....I think winning the Maxwell award is kinda a bad thing when talking Heisman.....Both these awards IMO are supposed to represent the same thing and I see only 10 out of 17 as a bad ratio when it comes down to basically the same award.....
Again, this is just my opinion.....

I still think that Palmer will win the award...

I think if you go by region that McGahee and Dorsey will cxl each other out in the South and Johnson and Banks may cxl each other out in the East and Midwest which leaves Palmer to get all the West Coast and a ton of votes from the other regions...
Banks may win the midwest and LJ may win the East but I still think they may take a lot of votes from one another...

I also think, whether fair or not, that Carsons last game will weigh heavily in everyones minds......Especially with no other competition in the West....

Now I dont necessarily think that Palmer will get the most first place votes but I do feel he will win by garnering the most total votes....

Thats my story and I'm sticking with it....:D

[rockin500]

its a good story james! :)

i think dorsey and McGahee should cancel each other out since i dont think either of em deserve it.

i think its going to be between banks, palmer and johnson with palmer edging everyone out by a nosehair.

[00_Agent]

I don't see how McGahee could possible win since the other running back finalist was superior to him in practically every category but touchdowns.

Also, Dorsey should not have a chance because he is the THIRD best quarterback that will be at the downtown athletic club.

I actually think that Brad Banks is going to win. Though I think the man who deserves it is Larry Johnson. He ran for over 2000 yards, owns nearly every Penn State record for running backs, including pass receptions in a season, and broke the all time record for yards per carry, which to me might be the most impressive of all his numbers. 8.2 is just ridiculous.

00

[awefullspellare]

anyone have Palmers stats form the last game? He did not leave that big of a impression in my mind. All i remeber is two BAD ints hearing about how unpaticent he is and 2 TDs

[Baseball Guru]

I totally agree that 8.2 is totally ridicoulous and very, very impressive....

2000 yard rushers although very impressive do not always equal the Heisman...

Remember in 95 and 96 a guy by the name of Troy Davis from Iowa State???
This is a RB that rushed for 2000+ yards in back to back seasons....In 95 he wasnt even one of the finalists as he finished 5th and in 96 he finished 2nd behind Wuerffel......

Take into consideration he very much padded his rushing yards vs 4 of the worse defenses in NCAA football vs the run....

He rushed for 257 vs Northwestern which was ranked last in the NCAA vs the run...He rushed for 279 vs Illinois which is ranked #94 out of 117, he rushed for 327 vs Indiana which is ranked #113 and finally rushed for 279 yards vs Michigan St. which is ranked #110.......

That equals 1142 yards in 4 games vs 4 of the worse D's in football....Still impressive because he actually still went out and put up those kind of #'s but IMO it takes away a little of this great accomplishment especially when you look at what he did vs 3 of the better D's in the nation, especially Iowa and OSU......
Performed above and beyond vs the bad teams and did not perform vs the good teams....

As a comon voter who doesnt see most of these games, and in fact may have never seen him play any game, as a voter, he or she may see this and it may sway his or her vote......

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by awefullspellare
anyone have Palmers stats form the last game? He did not leave that big of a impression in my mind. All i remeber is two BAD ints hearing about how unpaticent he is and 2 TDs

He threw for 425 yards---4-TD's and was 32 of 46 in passing and 2 INT's vs the 39th ranked passing offense and 14th ranked total defense in ND...

I am pretty sure that performance will stick in a lot of voters minds.....:D

[GiveHyzduashot]

IMO, LJ appears to be the favorite after all the awards he won last night. I think the award he won where he was up against the other four Heisman finalists (not sure of the name of the award) is a good sign of LJ's chances.

History also is on his side ... of the three backs before him to rush for 2,000 yards and average 6.5 yards a carry or more, all three won the Heisman.

... especially when you look at what he did vs 3 of the better D's in the nation, especially Iowa and OSU......

Ugh. Nothing personal James, but I am sick and tired of hearing that excuse. LJ led the nation in receiving yards for a running back, I believe. He led the nation in all purpose yards. If you couldn't tell by watching him, then those stats pretty much prove he's an all around player. And because of that, it's only fair to consider his all purpose yards. Average for those three games: 153 yards.

I want to address the Iowa game in particular (again, nothing personal James, just that argument in general). How can LJ establish the run when the defense puts PSU behind 21-0 early on? When LJ DID run the ball, he averaged 4 yards a carry, which isn't bad.

Also, Palmer's the only player who really hasn't played many bad teams. Look at who Miami has played: Rutgers, Temple, Syracuse, Florida A&M, and Connecticut. Those five games apply to Dorsey and McGahee. But McGahee benefitted from playing a Virginia Tech team that couldn't stop the run in the last few weeks. Look at who Iowa has played: Akron, Miami of Ohio, Utah State, Michigan State, Indiana, and Northwestern. My point is this: Every finalist except for Palmer has padded his stats against four or more teams. Punish LJ for it if you wish, but every Heisman finalist this year except for Carson has done the exact same thing. And James, believe me when I say this: In the four games you mentioned, LJ EASILY could have had an extra 200-300 yards. He compiled most of those yards in three quarters a game on average, and if he had an extra four quarters, he would have many many more yards if Paterno decides to really boost his stats.

[GiveHyzduashot]

On the lighter side, we can be glad McGahee (at least not yet) doesn't have an official vote, because he said he'd vote for Dorsey, Senneca Wallace (!), and LJ.

Wallace isn't even in the top ten at least, maybe top fifteen anymore.

[awefullspellare]

Originally posted by Baseball Guru


He threw for 425 yards---4-TD's and was 32 of 46 in passing and 2 INT's vs the 39th ranked passing offense and 14th ranked total defense in ND...

I am pretty sure that performance will stick in a lot of voters minds.....:D

ohh maybe he is worthy :)

[Baseball Guru]

LoL...I'm not taking anything personal Josh as I could care less who wins the Heisman as I have no ties or a personal issue with any of the players although I have a deep hatred for UM so I guess I would hope Dorsey or McGahee dont win but other than that all I was doing is showing everyone who think that LJ is a lock what some of the voters may look at....Again, I may be way off since I am not a voter but IMO some of the factors I look at may be in the minds of the voters....I personally hate the whole 1st, 2nd etc votes becasue it can allow a guy to not have the most 1st place votes and still win.....Take a panel of voters and let them have 1 vote for 1 guy and see who comes out the winner.......
Again, JMHO:D

Good luck to all players and fans of those players tonight....

[GiveHyzduashot]

Something else to consider. Five out of the nine times a player has rushed for 2,000 yards and went on to win the Heisman have come out of big programs (Sanders-Oklahoma State, Rozier-Nebraska, Williams-Texas, Salaam-Colorado, and Allen-USC). The other four have come out of weaker programs (Hanspard-Texas Tech, Tomlinson-TCU, Davis-Iowa State). That is another strong sign.

Also, the last time two teammates were Heisman finalists ('94, Collins and Carter), they split the vote and opened the door for a 2,000 yard rusher --- Salaam. Hopefully the same will happen this year.

[BPBlueSox]

Palmer's gonna win. I just know it. I hate that prick. :angry:

[BPBlueSox]

Boy, did I call that or what? :angry: :angry:

[Baseball Guru]

Actually I believe it was I that first called it;) :D

[BPBlueSox]

In this thread...:angry: :D

[awefullspellare]

I thank the pick was bad. 2 LOSSES adn NOT THE BEST stats. If Banks had one more late game to show maybe he woulda had a shot!

[BPBlueSox]

It was a horrible choice. That's the problem with these things. 80% of the damn voters probably didn't even watch the games...with the exception of faggoty ass Notre Dame against USC the last game of the year...wow, lighting up Notre Dame's defense...definitely Heisman worthy...:hmm:

[Baseball Guru]

Those were the reasons I have been telling you guys for weeks on why it would be tough for LJ and Banks to win the award.....

The big game vs ND would stay in everyones minds as well as Banks and LJ, especially Banks, playing his last game a month ago....

I agree that if Banks had a big game only a week or 2 ago he definitely would have had a shot...

BTW, I said Carson would win the Heisman in another thread (Heisman candidates) over a week ago...
I also listed the order I thought they would finish in which I was close but I had LJ finishing 2nd and Banks 3rd.....

I think my voting scenario played out pretty well;)

[GiveHyzduashot]

Yes James, and I also remember you saying McGahee probably had wrapped up the Heisman after his six touchdown performance against Virginia Tech. ;)

Obviously I'm disappointed, but I'm not the least bit surprised that Palmer won. I am, however, surprised Banks finished second, and I am surprised the voting was as clear cut as it was.

[Baseball Guru]

Actually my 2 quotes, at least what I could find about McGahee were:

"Well I am thinking that McGahee may have impressed a voter or 2 by yesterdays performance"

and

"I also agree that McGahee could have won it today....Shawn, you are correct about Tech being ranked as high because of the first 6 games...They fell apart in the 2nd half of the season.....

6 TD's....Geez"

Saying he "could" have won it and "probably" wrapped it up are pretty different....;)

Also, when it came down to picking a winner I choose very clearly Palmer and gave my reasons why I thought he would win it in 2 different threads....

I must admit though, that I was suprised as well as he won it as clear cut as he did.....