AddictsSport's Alltime Basketball Team Post 1980's Shooting Guards

[uj4l]

Let's Have Fun:clap2: Vote for the person you would like to win.

[renuszm]

This is too easy, what would this all-star team be without MJ.

[uj4l]

kobe. i dont like jordan much.

[renuszm]

Yeah, well Jordan changed the game, if you were able to see him in his prime, you would understand.

[uj4l]

yea i know. he is a great player. but what i think is different. i think by the time kobe is at his bestr he will be a better player. he is still a young player and has much to learn. i know jordan is better, but i just dont like jordan much

[awefullspellare]

isnt this the best ever adn not the best in the future?

[rockin500]

kobe will never match MJ. to see MJ in the late 80's early 90's? that was pure magic to watch him play the game. hes the best ever. :)

[uj4l]

this is just best player. yes i agree. MJ is a better player but i think kobe is just as good. and he is still young.

[awefullspellare]

Originally posted by uj4l
this is just best player. yes i agree. MJ is a better player but i think kobe is just as good. and he is still young.

If MJ is better than how is Kobe as good?

[uj4l]

what i mean is i give jordan a rating 1-10 a 9 i give kobe a 8.9. he is so close to being at the sam,e level as jordan. so by the time he gets to 30 hew will be better in my opinion

[renuszm]

I still think you have no idea what Jordan played like. he is the best player ever, no question, so why would we vote against him? To compare Kobe to Jordan is like comparing Gretzky to Messier.

[uj4l]

Originally posted by renuszm
To compare Kobe to Jordan is like comparing Gretzky to Messier.

i dont know who messier is. opinions are like @$$holes, everyone has one. and my opinion is kobe. so..end off subject!!!!!:angry:

[renuszm]

Well there are good and bad opinions, just like good and bad players.
btw, I'm going a little harder on this round of voting because this is the era I lived in.

[rockin500]

jordan is best player period, end of discussion. :)

[uj4l]

yea. i know more on these people so that is why i put more people

[renuszm]

Originally posted by rockin500
jordan is best player period, end of discussion. :) aint that the truth.

[uj4l]

i think chamberlain is the best, i also think west is better. do u have a problem or something because i think different than u?

[renuszm]

If Chamberlain played in our era, he wouldnt have been as good. Chamberlain was also strictly an offensive player.

[uj4l]

strictly offense. ummm no. u know how many rebounds he got. hew is the record holder of almost all the rebound records

[rockin500]

chamberlain woulda been good, just not as good as he was back then

[uj4l]

the game was played differently back then. there have been different rules, so u really cant compare them. especialy because they are two totally different positions

[renuszm]

Originally posted by uj4l
the game was played differently back then. there have been different rules, so u really cant compare them. especialy because they are two totally different positions That's what I was saying in the first place. Chamberlain would've been good, but not as well he was before.

[uj4l]

u dont know because he would have learned how to play with the rules played today. but when he learned to play back then. he learned to play how the game was played back then. but jerry west is the same position and i think he is better

[lal4l]

Originally posted by rockin500
jordan is best player period, end of discussion. :)

Actually you would not know so not end of duscussion buddy you dont know nething you have not even compared you just listen to what those stupid ass sports analys say cause that is what the ppl want to hear! But you know buddy Oscar Robertson was better and so was Wilt then there is Jerry West and Kareem! SO you know YOU JUST GOT OWNED! I FINISHED THIS!

[lal4l]

BTW, I picked MJ FOR 80's I also agree Kobe will be better then him one day but so far MJ is best in 80's!

[renuszm]

Originally posted by lal4l


Actually you would not know so not end of duscussion buddy you dont know nething you have not even compared you just listen to what those stupid ass sports analys say cause that is what the ppl want to hear! But you know buddy Oscar Robertson was better and so was Wilt then there is Jerry West and Kareem! SO you know YOU JUST GOT OWNED! I FINISHED THIS!
whoah whoah, it's almost pretty obvious that Jordan is the best ever **waits for bd to chime in**

[lal4l]

Originally posted by renuszm

whoah whoah, it's almost pretty obvious that Jordan is the best ever **waits for bd to chime in**

Ya u cant back it up

[milky_way]

Jordan is the best player ever. Give me any evidence or stat or anything at all that suggests otherwise. You can say he's not the best and base it on opinion, which is fine since everyone has a different opinion, but then this "Addict Sports All-Time Greatest Team" or whatever we're doing will be a team of the posters' favorite players. It might as well be a team of Montross, MacCullugh, and other favorites of this forum.

Jordan and Kobe have been compared...a LOT. Every young promising guard was probably compared to Jordan at some point, and every young, promising guard will probably be compared to Jordan until the "Heir to Air" comes along, which will probably be never. But to say that Kobe is greater than Jordan now is upsurd. You can argue the similarity of thier stats are when Jordan was Kobe's age and all that stuff, but if you watched Jordan play and if you watch Kobe play now, there is no legimate comparison.

For one, Jordan LED the Bulls to six titles. Shaq led the Lakers to the three titles Kobe has won. Kobe is more comparable to Pippen when he was on the Bulls than he is to Jordan. Like Pippen, Kobe is Robin. Jordan was Batman. Robin should not be compared to Batman. And you can't argue that Kobe doesn't get to be the superstar and leader of the team because Shaq is there, because Kobe has had his chance this season and last season when Shaq has been out, and look how the Lakers have been doing? They're not even a .500 team!

Secondly, (looking at stats this time) Jordan has averaged over 30 PPG in 8 freakin seasons. Kobe has averaged over 30 PPG in 0 seasons. Jordan once averaged 37 PPG in a season (one in which he played in every game). Both Jordan's career average and playoff average is over 30 PPG. I don't know if anyone else can boast that other than maybe Wilt. Kobe's career average is currently 10 points lower than Jordan's. And to nullify the argument that Kobe is better than Jordan when Kobe was his age, lets look at his year-by-year stats:

Age 21 (Jordan's first year)-
Jordan- 28.2 PPG, 5.9 APG, 6.5 RPG
Kobe- 19.9 PPG, 3.8 APG, 5.3 RPG

Age 22-
Jordan- 22.7 PPG, 2.9 APG, 3.6 RPG
Kobe- 22.5 PPG, 4.9 APG, 6.3 RPG
**JORDAN ONLY PLAYED 18 GAMES THIS YEAR**

Age 23-
Jordan- 37.1 PPG, 4.6 APG, 5.2 RPG
Kobe- 28.5 PPG, 5.0 APG, 5.9 RPG

Age 24-
Jordan- 35.0 PPG, 5.9 APG, 5.5 RPG
Kobe- 25.2 PPG, 5.5 APG, 5.5 RPG

Age 25-
Jordan- 32.5 PPG, 8.0 APG, 8.0 RPG
Kobe- 26.7 PPG, 7.2 APG, 7.6 RPG (so far this season)

Jordan outscored Kobe by nearly 10.0 PPG when they were the same age. Thus, the "Kobe was better when Jordan was the same age" stuff isn't credible. They may be often compared, but really, there is no comparison. Jordan is the greatest ever, Kobe isn't even the best player on his team.

[milky_way]

BTW, if you couldn't tell, i voted for Jordan :evillol

[uj4l]

if shaq wasnt their think how good kobe would do. if jordan had someone better on his team he wouldnt do as good. i bet when shaq leaves or kobe is the best on his team he will do better than jordan. that is a gurantee

[milky_way]

Originally posted by uj4l
if shaq wasnt their think how good kobe would do. if jordan had someone better on his team he wouldnt do as good. i bet when shaq leaves or kobe is the best on his team he will do better than jordan. that is a gurantee
i addressed that point somewhere in my post, but maybe it wasn't clear so i'll say it again. Look how Kobe has been doing this season and last season when Shaq was out. The Lakers haven't even hit .500. That is SAD! A player like Shaq DOES NOT hurt his teammates, he HELPS THEM! He gets his teammates so many wide open shots and defensively there are few that are better.

And trust me, i'll be remembering that guarentee you just made, although i don't understand how you can be so confident.

[uj4l]

he is already doing good with shaq think how good he will do with out him

[rockin500]

kobe has no leadership skills. i cant stand that kid. he doesnt make the players around him any better. Michael Jordan he isnt.

[milky_way]

Originally posted by uj4l
he is already doing good with shaq think how good he will do with out him
Stats wise, i can't imagine Kobe scoring over 30 a game at the age of 30. More than that, i can't imagine Kobe leading his team anywhere. As rockin said, Kobe has no leadership skills...and the biggest thing that seperates Jordan from Kobe and other stars IS leadership skills. Jordan was a leader, and a damn good one at that. A dynasty was built around him. You can't say that about many others, including Kobe. Kobe's stats may go up a little (a tiny bit at most, since he'd probably shoot every time he touched the ball) once Shaq leaves, but unless the Lakers pick up some other superstar along the way, Kobe's team won't be going anywhere.

[milky_way]

The words of Hubie Brown:

When you look at everything that Michael Jordan has accomplished from his game attendance to the six NBA championships, six Finals MVPs and five league MVPs, it's easy to see why he is considered the greatest of all time. When people debate over the greatest players of all time, and what players can transcend every era from the 1940s to present day, these people will pick a certain player because of a position that they like. Some guys like small forwards, some guys like centers, some guys like guards, some guys like power forwards and they'll pick one of their guys at those positions. But in Michael Jordan you had a guy who could give you everything.


Bill Russell won five MVP awards, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar won six, but the element of Jordan's game which separates him from all the rest is his attendance. Michael played 13 years, playing all 82 games eight times. Ten times Jordan played 80 or more games, one year he only played 18 games due to a broken foot, one year he played only 17 games after coming back from baseball, and there's only one other year he played 78 games. That competitive fire and desire to play and desire to win is second to none. Michael showed up to give you 30 or more points on a nightly basis, with the great shooting percentages, with the rebounding, with the assists and never sacrificed anything on the other end of the floor, where he gave you nine years of First Team All-Defense. There's nobody that's done that. When they compare him for competitiveness, the only guy in the same breath with Jordan is Bill Russell. Russell backed up his game with 11 championships as the heart and soul of the Boston Celtics. Russell's rebounding, shot-blocking and total defensive dominance from the foul line down is unmatched. But nobody in the history of the game has dominated at both ends of the floor like Michael Jordan. Therein lies the difference.

Michael Jordan simply leaves the game as the best player ever to play, and I don't think there is any argument over that. At the 1997 NBA All-Star Game in Cleveland when they celebrated the the top 50 players in NBA history, it was interesting because it was nearly unanimous among the players was that this guy is the greatest player to ever play. To me that thought is interesting because of its absolute nature.

Link (http://players.nba.com/jordan/hubieonjordan.html)

[lal4l]

Milkey the point is not Kobe and Jordan IT IS JORDAN IS NOT THE BEST WHO EVER LIVED!

[renuszm]

Originally posted by lal4l


Ya u cant back it up
How many records do I have to go through?

[milky_way]

Originally posted by lal4l
Milkey the point is not Kobe and Jordan IT IS JORDAN IS NOT THE BEST WHO EVER LIVED!
:umm i was responding to uj's vote that Kobe is/will be better than Jordan

Also, didn't my above post cover Jordan vs. everyone else? If Jordan isn't the best ever, then who is? There is only one person who can make that claim, and that's Wilt. No one has ever dominated the way Wilt did. i'm not trying to argue that Jordan was more dominant than Wilt, i'm saying that overall, when you consider Jordan's entire game and everything he brought to the Bulls, Jordan was the better player. Not the more dominant of the two, but the better player.

First let me state that its hard to compare Wilt and Jordan because they played in very different eras and they play very different positions. That said, you can't compare their stats and say that Wilt was better than Jordan because he once averaged 50+ PPG and once scored a 100 points in a game. The competition in Wilt's era was not nearly as tough as the competition in Jordan's era. Not saying Wilt had none (Russell is pretty obvious), but overall Wilt didn't face the type of competition that Jordan did. You can't project what Chamberlain would have averaged if he played in today's era or anything of that sort, but you can safely assume that he wouldn't be averaging 50 PPG and grabbing 20+ RPG.

Second, its hard for me to compare the two players since i've only seen Jordan, and have only videos clips, what i've read, and stats to judge Wilt by.

Still, Jordan's will to win is unmatched by any. He's one of the greatest winner of all-time. When you think of the greatest winners in the NBA, you think of Jordan, Russell, Magic...not really Wilt. The Bulls built a dynasty around Jordan, and he consistently led them over some of the greatest players ever (91 he beat Magic, 92 he beat Drexler, 93 he beat Barkley, 96 he beat Payton, 97 and 98 he beat Stockton and Malone, and that's just the finals).

Also, Jordan won 10 scoring titles, 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs, and 6 titles in an era that was one of the toughest ever (Magic, Bird, Olajuwan, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, etc.). He was the best of the best. He was the only guard that came close to dominating the league, and that's pretty darn impressive.

Jordan was one of the most complete players ever, and when you consider that along with his individual greatness, dominance, and team success, there's no one better.

[renuszm]

Originally posted by milky_way

:umm i was responding to uj's vote that Kobe is/will be better than Jordan

Also, didn't my above post cover Jordan vs. everyone else? If Jordan isn't the best ever, then who is? There is only one person who can make that claim, and that's Wilt. No one has ever dominated the way Wilt did. i'm not trying to argue that Jordan was more dominant than Wilt, i'm saying that overall, when you consider Jordan's entire game and everything he brought to the Bulls, Jordan was the better player. Not the more dominant of the two, but the better player.

First let me state that its hard to compare Wilt and Jordan because they played in very different eras and they play very different positions. That said, you can't compare their stats and say that Wilt was better than Jordan because he once averaged 50+ PPG and once scored a 100 points in a game. The competition in Wilt's era was not nearly as tough as the competition in Jordan's era. Not saying Wilt had none (Russell is pretty obvious), but overall Wilt didn't face the type of competition that Jordan did. You can't project what Chamberlain would have averaged if he played in today's era or anything of that sort, but you can safely assume that he wouldn't be averaging 50 PPG and grabbing 20+ RPG.

Second, its hard for me to compare the two players since i've only seen Jordan, and have only videos clips, what i've read, and stats to judge Wilt by.

Still, Jordan's will to win is unmatched by any. He's one of the greatest winner of all-time. When you think of the greatest winners in the NBA, you think of Jordan, Russell, Magic...not really Wilt. The Bulls built a dynasty around Jordan, and he consistently led them over some of the greatest players ever (91 he beat Magic, 92 he beat Drexler, 93 he beat Barkley, 96 he beat Payton, 97 and 98 he beat Stockton and Malone, and that's just the finals).

Also, Jordan won 10 scoring titles, 5 MVPs, 6 Finals MVPs, and 6 titles in an era that was one of the toughest ever (Magic, Bird, Olajuwan, Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Robinson, Barkley, Shaq, etc.). He was the best of the best. He was the only guard that came close to dominating the league, and that's pretty darn impressive.

Jordan was one of the most complete players ever, and when you consider that along with his individual greatness, dominance, and team success, there's no one better. Wow someones bored and it's not me :D

[milky_way]

Originally posted by renuszm
Wow someones bored and it's not me :D
damn right, i have a next week off and i'm so freakin bored...:ugh: i'll be on a posting frenzy :D

[renuszm]

Originally posted by milky_way

damn right, i have a next week off and i'm so freakin bored...:ugh: i'll be on a posting frenzy :D
You have next week off, why?? I wish I had next week off so that I'd have more time to be bored.

[milky_way]

i'm on a modified schedule. we start school August 1st, have a week off after the first quarter, a week more of winter vacation, and a week more of spring vacation (so in other words, a pretty long vacation after every quarter). this schedule rules :smokin:

i should be reading this dumb novel i have to finish in a couple weeks :ugh:. i'm only half way done :(

[renuszm]

Well if it was me I wouldnt even be started by now haha :D

[milky_way]

Originally posted by milky_way
:smokin:

what's wrong with all the smilies?

[renuszm]

Originally posted by milky_way

what's wrong with all the smilies?
Thats what Im wondering, it's been doing that all day.

[rockin500]

nothings wrong with my smilies. :D

by the way, anyone who thinks jordan isnt the best player ever is smokin too much crack. milky, your right that Wilt can be the only one considered to be more DOMINANT. but jordan is a better all around player. :)

[renuszm]

Originally posted by rockin500
nothings wrong with my smilies. :D

by the way, anyone who thinks jordan isnt the best player ever is smokin too much crack. milky, your right that Wilt can be the only one considered to be more DOMINANT. but jordan is a better all around player. :) Yep Wilt could score, but that was about it. These youngun's dont like Jordan because he can't play at the level he used to. And yet he can still score 20-25 points some nights.

[rockin500]

yeah, they seem to forget that he is near 40 years old. lol i wish i could be in his shape now that he is at 40.

[uj4l]

michael jordan wins!