Rocky for Hall?

[Special_K19]

The Cleveland sports legend Rocky Colavito is up for the Hall of Fame through the Veteran's Commitee. Will he make it? Obviously I say yes he should. Here's his stats: Rocky Colavito (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/colavro01.shtml)

An average season saw him hit .266 with 33 homers, 102 RBIs, and 85 Runs.

[imgreat95]

Sorry, But I have to say no on Rocky. Yes, Rocky put up some great numbers, but I believe that the numbers you posted were misleading. Those "average" numbers were for if he had played 162 games per season. However, he only played in 132 games per season.

That makes his average numbers per season closer to 26 HR... 83 RBI.. and 69 Runs scored. These numbers put him at really not much more than a guy like Matt Williams (23/75/62/.269-- To me, those are not even close to Hall of Famer numbers.

[PopTop]

If Ryne Sandberg, the 2nd-best 2B I've seen play, can't get in, then Rocky Colavito doesn't deserve enshrinement.

[Big Dawg]

There's a very strong similarity between Rocky's career stats and Gil Hodges...and Hodges is one of those guys people have been screaming for years deserves induction:

Hodges: .273 BA, 370 HR, 1274 RBI, 2071 Games
Rocky: .266 BA, 374 HR, 1159 RBI, 1841 Games

and someone brought up Ryne Sandberg...

Sandberg: .285 BA, 282 HR, 1061 RBI, 2164 games

so if you go strictly by the numbers, both Colavito and Hodges had better careers than Ryno.

[PopTop]

Originally posted by Big Dawg
so if you go strictly by the numbers, both Colavito and Hodges had better careers than Ryno.

Yeah, especially if you leave off the 344 SBs, 10 All-Star Games, 9 Gold Gloves, MVP, the fact he's one of only two 2B to lead his league in homers for a season (Hornsby did it twice) and the idea that Sandberg was the best second baseman of his era ... Can you rank either Hodges or Colavito as the best 1B or OF of their time?

Before you think I'm knocking Hodges or Colavito, both of whom I think were excellent players, I'm not ... I just don't give the BBWAA and HOF much respect for the inconcistencies and hypocrisy of their voting and hallowed shrine.

[Big Dawg]

Neither am I knocking Sandberg...just pointing out some stat similarities. By the way, Hodges was an All-Star 8 times with 3 Gold Gloves. Between 1949 and 1957 the only year he wasn't an All-star was 1956. AND let's not forget that little managing thing he threw inm in 1969. Colavito was a 6-time all-star.

[PopTop]

Here again, Big Dawg, I think we're in agreement on some/most of this ... I happen to be among those who think the HOF has excluded quite a few deserving players (Santo's long been my poster child) ... There are others who think the HOF is diluted as it currently stands, and they make pretty good arguments I have to say.

Hodges sort of reminds me of Torre ... Both had solid careers, posted numbers well ahead of the curve, then enjoyed success as managers to boot.

[imgreat95]

How can you compare a guy like Sandberg to Hodges and Rocky?? Comparing guys of different positions and eras, especially when you are talking about "power" positions compared to middle infield spots, is crazy.

[Big Dawg]

Originally posted by imgreat95
How can you compare a guy like Sandberg to Hodges and Rocky?? Comparing guys of different positions and eras, especially when you are talking about "power" positions compared to middle infield spots, is crazy.

Not sure who you're addressing this question to...if it's me, I was simply responding to an earlier statement that Colavito doesn't belong in unless Sandberg is.

If you weren't addressing me, ignore this ;)

[imgreat95]

oh no no.. I definitely believe that Sandberg belongs in. I consider him to be one of the top 3 2nd baseman ever. I would even possibly put him above Joe Morgan. I don't think that Rocky belongs.

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by Big Dawg


Not sure who you're addressing this question to...if it's me, I was simply responding to an earlier statement that Colavito doesn't belong in unless Sandberg is.



Ahhh, ok, I understood it the other way as well.....

I agree that Snadberg should be as he is in the Addicts HOF but cant really compare players from different positions....1B is supposed to me a more power posistion traditionally....

Even at that, Sandberg's #'s are not that far off and as PT points out he has some mis stuff as well as the SB's, the GG's and MVP....

You are right though Dawg, the #'s between Hodges and Rocky do mirror one another and IMO neither deserve to be in but Rocky will not make it into the or at least should not until Hodges ever gets the call if that happens....Hodges by some chance gets in, it may open the door for Rocky.....

JMO:)

[Trots]

The problem with Rocky, as it if for Hodges, Jim Rice, Dale Murphy and a number of others, is that they have what I would consider "fringe" HOF numbers. Either their totals are close to the lowest HOF at that position, or they have a single number or two that puts them in the elite status, but that's all.

Also, as Pop Tart elluded to, inducting one of these types of players opens the door not only to each other, but to a much larger group of players just a notch off their stat totals.

If Hodges, Colavito, Rice and Murphy are in, how far off is Tony Oliva? Roger Maris? Fred Lynn? Are all of these guys HOF material? IMO, the answer is no. I could be wrong, but I don't think all those guys belong in the same sentence with Ruth, Mays, Bonds (Barry, that is) or even Reggie Jackson.

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by Trots
Also, as Pop Tart elluded to,

If Hodges, Colavito, Rice and Murphy are in, how far off is Tony Oliva? Roger Maris? Fred Lynn? Are all of these guys HOF material? IMO, the answer is no. I could be wrong, but I don't think all those guys belong in the same sentence with Ruth, Mays, Bonds (Barry, that is) or even Reggie Jackson.

The biggest thing I get out of this and I'm sorry, but this cracks me up, is Trots reference of PopTop as Pop Tart:lmao: :lmao:

Gezz, that is hilarious:clap2:



Anyways, I agree B that if you allow those guys in, it does open a new can of worms so to speak by allowing others in...The line must be drawn somewhere...

Hodges may get in due to being a sentimental favorite and so close.....No that he should but he may make it in due to that...

[Trots]

LOL! That's pretty funny, even if the joke is on me. My wife just brought home three boxes of Pop Tarts and obviously my confusion over that is stuck in my little mind. It's tough to get old. One thought at a time is about all I can handle apparently.

You really should be nice to your elders, J. Remember you sneaking up behind me on the old calendar. This could be you someday.

Btw, sorry about that Pop Top. I'd say it won't happen again, but you just never can be too sure what I am going to do/say next. (My wife can figure out what I'm talking about half the time now.)

[Baseball Guru]

LoL...Thats ok B.....I was really thinking you had no idea you had even wrote that....

Thanks for the reminder that I'm creeping up on you:(

So are you restricted to pop tarts now because you can only eat soft foods at your age???;)