Clemens' Swan Song?

[PopTop]

http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=1660&xlc=931495

Rocket will land after this season

By Mark Wangrin San Antonio Express-News 01/26/2003 12:00 AM

AUSTIN — The first pitch in the bottom of the first inning of the Texas Varsity-Alumni Game sailed behind leadoff hitter Tim Moss, a sure sign of one thing.
Roger Clemens was back.

For the first time since 1996, the six-time Cy Young award winner was on hand for the game, which pits the current Longhorns team against former players, including Major Leaguers Greg Swindell of the Arizona Diamondbacks and Calvin Murray of the Los Angeles Dodgers.

Clemens, who'll turn 41 in August, is almost certainly making his last appearance at Disch-Falk Field as an active player.

"I'm not ready to announce this is my last year, but I think it will be," Clemens said. "I'd like to get to 300 wins and get another big shiny (World Series) ring."

Clemens signed a one-year, $10.1 million contract with the Yankees this month and enters the season seven wins short of becoming the 21st pitcher to reach 300. With 3,909 career strikeouts he's 227 from catching former Philadelphia ace Steve Carlton for second-place on the all-time list.

"I can pitch until I'm 50 with my workout program," said Clemens, who was 13-6 with a 4.35 ERA last season with the Yankees. "But there are things in Houston pulling me back. I've done all the things I can accomplish in this game. As for (300 wins), that'll happen because I'm out there doing positive things."

Clemens was telling former teammates and coaches at the event that this would be his final season.

Though easily the former Longhorns player with the highest profile, Clemens had not attended the Alumni Game since he was touched for five hits before his final season with the Boston Red Sox. Though there had been rumblings that Clemens was unhappy with the treatment of former coach Cliff Gustafson, who was dismissed in the summer of 1996 when irregularities were discovered in the finances of the UT summer camps, he cited schedule conflicts for his absence.

"I had a good thing at the Bob Hope (golf) tournament, and I'm heading out there on Tuesday," Clemens said. "This is a special year. The guys won the national championship and I wanted to make sure I had the opportunity to tell (coach) Augie (Garrido) and the guys congratulations."

"Our players have a certain amount of respect for all our alumni and the most famous is Roger Clemens," Garrido said. "It's not often a school produces a (future) Hall of Famer. It brings a lot to the players. It makes them feel a part of it. They think, 'I'm wearing the same uniform he wore.' Not the same number — that's on the wall."

After throwing his first pitch behind Moss — an Alumni Game tradition — Clemens struck him out and then got Omar Quintanilla to line out and Dustin Majewski to ground out.

Though billed as the Varsity-Alumni Game, it almost looked like the Yankees were holding an early spring training. Aside from Clemens, four other pitchers wearing New York pinstripes were on hand, all members of last year's team that were drafted by the team in June. Ray Clark and Brad Halsey pitched and Alan Bomer and Ben King, both injured, watched.

"When I got to New York Roger came up to me and told me how happy he was to have us with the team," King said. "It was great."

wangrin@express-news.net

[Big Dawg]

"I'm not ready to announce this is my last year, but I think it will be," Clemens said. "I'd like to get to 300 wins and get another big shiny (World Series) ring."

I hope it shines it up REALLLLL good...turns it sideways......I'll let you fill in the rest.

[PissedPrincess]

I echo Big Dawg's statements.

Clemens.:barf:

[amy5180]

I feel the same way. Clemans :barf:

[Obri]

Go Rocket! Here's to win no.300.:beer:

[Big Dawg]

you know Obri, even most of the Yankee fans I know detest Clemens. What; if he wears your team's uniform that automatically grants him a pardon for all past present and future transgressions?

[rockin500]

i always liked clemens. :D one of my favorite pitchers of all time.

[PopTop]

Originally posted by Big Dawg
What, if he wears your team's uniform that automatically grants him a pardon for all past present and future transgressions?

Oh, Canine Maximus, ye with the crystal ball, please entertain us with your visions of Clemens' "future transgressions."

[Obri]

Originally posted by Big Dawg
you know Obri, even most of the Yankee fans I know detest Clemens. What; if he wears your team's uniform that automatically grants him a pardon for all past present and future transgressions?

You're quite right, Dawg. I did not attempt to pardon Clemens for his past, present and future(?) transgressions, I simply stated my support for him in his quest for 300 wins, since, if he acheives it in pinstripes would not only be a momentous occasion for the man himself, but also another fabulous day in the history of the New York Yankees and the fans. Admittedly, Clemens is not the nicest guy by reputation, and many people, including yourself, have right to dislike him.

I'm sorry if my comments were taken out of context.

[Big Dawg]

Originally posted by PopTop


Oh, Canine Maximus, ye with the crystal ball, please entertain us with your visions of Clemens' "future transgressions."

shouldn't that be Caninus Maximus? ;)

I think it's safe to assume that, utilizing the "once a thug always a thug" theory, there will indeed be "future transgressions."

And I'm sorry, but I just have a lot of trouble celebrating Thug-face's 300th win as a "fabulous moment in Yankee history." That would give him way too much recognition as being a "Yankee."

Don Mattingly was a yankee. Ron Guidry, Thurman Munson, even Roy White--they wore the pinstripes with distinction and added to the Yankee "aura and mystique." Clemens is just a hired gun and a thug; the only reason he loves the Yankees is because they're the ones writing his overbloated paycheck.

[PopTop]

Should make for interesting banter when Clemens the Hired Gun/Thug goes into the HOF wearing a BoSox cap.

[imgreat95]

I am not a Yankees' fan by ANY means, but I love Clemens. I love him because he takes the ball every 5th day and he goes o ut there and he does his job. He also happens to do his job much better than the majority of the other guys out there. Especially at the age of 40.

[Obri]

Following Clemens amazing 20-3 season in 2001, he was quoted as saying he would like to go to the HOF as a Yankee. While I agree that this couldn't really be justified given his successes with Boston, it does seem Clemens has a genuine desire to go to the Hall as a Yankee, and has been an important factor in the success we have enjoyed over the last few years.

[Big Dawg]

as witnessed by the Gary Carter decision last week, the player's preference is no longer the main factor in these decisions. The guy pitched 13 years in Boston and 4 (5 coming up in NY). Nuff said.

Wade Boggs has said he wants to go in as a Devil ray but I doubt that will happen either.

[imgreat95]

What about the possibil;ity that Gary Carter is going in as an Expo because that is where he enoyed the greatest success in his career and he actually wanted to do that?

[Big Dawg]

Carter was widely quoted as saying he preferred to have the Met cap. If you insist I'll find the articles.

[imgreat95]

You could find all of the articles you wish about what carter may or may not have said in the past. The possibility still exists, however, that he may have changed his mind.

To the best of my knowledge, MLB still leaves it up to the player to decide what team he represents. Now, I am not saying that I agree with this under any circumstances. I think that you should go in representing every team you have played for.

[PissedPrincess]

MLB does NOT let the player decide anymore. Last year they changed that.:cool:

[Big Dawg]

Originally posted by imgreat95
To the best of my knowledge, MLB still leaves it up to the player to decide what team he represents.

No longer the case. After the allegations that Winfield demanded a million bucks from the yanks (charges never proven and widely disputed by everyone except the yankees), the HoF took the bull by the horns and said from now on they will decide.

Carter's clearly stated preference was a Met cap. The HoF decided otherwise. Since articles won't convince you you're wrong I won't bother doing the research.

[PopTop]

Originally posted by imgreat95
I think that you should go in representing every team you have played for.

I agree with you, imgreat, since it's supposed to be for a career achievement, not one year or one span of time ... But I'm afraid that Big Dawg is correct now in the fact the HOF decides and that Carter was quoted as saying he wanted to go in as a Met.

I always thought Nolan Ryan shoulda' chosen the Angels since that was the bulk of his playing time (plus 4 of his 7 no-no's) ... Ryan even hinted he wanted to honor singin' cowboy Gene Autry with the Halo's cap, but had already basically agreed to a "lifetime service" contract with Gee Dubya and the Texas Rangers.

[PissedPrincess]

Stop copying me Doggie.:D


Ohhhhh..head hurts.....SB hangover. :coffee:

[Big Dawg]

sorry; didn't see your post till after I'd made mine.

while the concept of honoring all the teams you played for sounds noble enough, exactly how do you do that? Especially in this era where players routinely play for multiple teams...do you put all the logos on the cap? Do like Catfish Hunter did and have no logo at all on the cap?

Baseball is to the best of my knowledge where this is even an issue. In the football, basketball and hockey Halls I'm pretty sure the player's likeness doesn't have anything indentifying any particular team.

[Baseball Guru]

Yes it is true that this year MLB has taken on the responsibility of making the decision on which team one enters the Hall with....

Carter said he'd prefer the Mets but also said he played the majority of his career with the Expos and wouldnt be devestated if he went in as an Expo.....

This was done primarily for players choosing their team for the wrong reason, IE. Boggs wanting to go in as a Devil Ray because they gave him a bonus to do so.....

As far as Clemens goes I used to love the guy....My main reason for hating him now is because he beaned one of my favorite players in Piazza (because Piazza owns him) causing him to miss the AS game in which he was the lone represenative that year from the Mets.....Then of course the WS incident...
That said I respect his ability as a pitcher and think it is cool to see a pitcher reach 300 wins...I just think as an individual he is a piece of $hit.....
JMO:)

[rockin500]

clemens has always had a few screws loose. :) which i kinda like outta him. and sure hes kinda ornery.

but i still love the guy. :)

[PissedPrincess]

I hope the pig gets 299 wins, then his arm falls off.:cool:

[imgreat95]

sionce when did this become about being right and wrong? All I said was that just because you show me an article saying he wanted to go in as a Met, that that does not mean that he did not later change his mind. I am not saying that he did. I am not saying that he didn't. Therefore, it is not a matter of being right and being wrong.

Believe it or not, everything in life is not about right and wrong.

[jdog402001]

1ST of all Carter stated he wanted to go into the Hall as a Met. But the Hall said no dice... His best years were with the Expos and they made that decision for him. As for Clemens.... He is one of the best ever at what he does... He is old school... And in todays game guys want to wine when you throw inside... That is part of the game and protecting your teammates is part of the game. So if Clemens is a "THUG" for that ...Give me 5 thugs and ride there butt to the Championship.... He will go in as a Red Sock no doubt...The hall will not let him go in as a Yankee after 200 wins in a red sock uniform... He should want to go in as a red sock,if not I would lose a little respect for him

[Big Dawg]

Originally posted by imgreat95
sionce when did this become about being right and wrong? All I said was that just because you show me an article saying he wanted to go in as a Met, that that does not mean that he did not later change his mind. I am not saying that he did. I am not saying that he didn't. Therefore, it is not a matter of being right and being wrong.

Believe it or not, everything in life is not about right and wrong.

the article I would have shown was from after the announcement was made...and while i agree "everything" isn't about right and wrong, in this case it was.

And you were wrong.

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by jdog402001
And in todays game guys want to wine when you throw inside... That is part of the game and protecting your teammates is part of the game. So if Clemens is a "THUG" for that ...Give me 5 thugs and ride there butt to the Championship


Again, I point out the fact that he did more than throw inside to Piazza to move him back...I'm all for a pitcher throwing inside to make a point and establish the plate but I cant condone throwing at a players head......I also cant condone a bat being split in half and having it thrown towards you....
Again, I am just passionate about this because it was done to one of my favorite players.....

Agreed though that he should go in as a Red Sox player:)

[rockin500]

maybe he did go insane for a second with the bat. :D

I'm kinda split on where he should go in as. havent decided yet.

[PopTop]

Don't like the idea of throwing at anyone's head, and I'm not going to debate Clemens being hot-headed ... However, I still don't think he was throwing that broken bat at Piazza ... Hard for any of us to become mind readers and determine if he was or wasn't ... I just think if that had been Clemens' intent, to hit Piazza with the bat, he would've done so.

[Big Dawg]

If you ever get a chance, watch the tape of that play again. Piazza stopped running up the line. Had he continued, the bat would have gotten him right in stride.

It was a perfect lead pass.

[imgreat95]

Originally posted by Big Dawg




And you were wrong.

wrong about what?? I never even made a statement in this thread which has a right or wrong. All that I said that was even close to being a wrong statement was that I didn't know the Hall had taken the choice away from the player. That is not being right or wrong, that is not knowing... and ADMITTING that I do not know.

As for how you take care of the issue, you simply just put every team he has played for on his plaque.

[Big Dawg]

Originally posted by imgreat95


As for how you take care of the issue, you simply just put every team he has played for on his plaque.

That's already done...here's Gaylord Perry's as an example:

http://www.baseballhalloffame.com/hofers_and_honorees/plaques/images/Perry_Gaylord.jpg

[imgreat95]

what I am talking about is to put a picture of each cap either between the head figure and the name.. or else put it beside each team name. Then, on the player, but just a regular ballcap...