Players still not sold on All-Star Game change

[Baseball Guru]

By Hal Bodley USA TODAY
4/22/2003


Changing the All-Star Game format is turning into a long-running soap opera.

The change remains in limbo. It could happen but might not.

Owners want the league that wins the midsummer game to get home-field advantage for the World Series. Fox is desperate for the change because it needs something to juice up TV ratings.

The players aren't. Some say it would be unfair. Others think the union should have more control over the selection of the All-Star squads after fans pick the starting eight players.


The format gained momentum after July's embarrassing 7-7 tie as both teams ran out of pitchers.

Owners unanimously approved the measure Jan. 17 and turned it over to the union, which holds the trump card. As union chief Don Fehr visited each of the major league teams during spring training, the issue was discussed. Sometimes the talks were heated.

Negotiations between management and the union continue.

"There's a lot of opposition," says Gene Orza, the union's No. 2 executive. "By the same token there are a lot of reasons to give it the best consideration we can. It hasn't been finalized; we'll be talking with the players in the next couple of days."

Commissioner Bud Selig, who unfairly took the brunt of criticism after the tie, has been pushing strongly for the change. He's convinced winning the game must be more meaningful. "I remain hopeful the union will approve the measure," says Selig, who adds negotiations are ongoing.

Says Orza: "Like most issues in baseball involving owners and the union, it's a lot more complicated than it seems at first blush. It's still alive. We're trying to work our way through this. By the same token there are a lot of good reasons to do it. Fox has been a good rights holder, and the players feel a certain obligation to them. The players also feel uniquely situated to talk about the kinds of rule changes that affect the game on the field."

Stay tuned.

[Big Dawg]

At least they haven't said yes yet--this is possibly the worst idea I've heard since the DH rule.

[Baseball Guru]

I agree.....

I hate to see a tie but I dont think the winner of this game should determine homefield advantage....


I still say the team with the best regular season record gets homefield advantage thru-out the playoffs and WS.....

[rockin500]

thats the only way it should be james. definitely the team with best record deserves the home advantage. never liked how it rotates.

[Big Dawg]

I'll tell you this--as a staunch National League fan, I will stuff the ballot box for the WORST American Leaguers at every position if this thing happens.

[Obri]

As far as i'm concerned, the All-Star game is nothing but an exhibition, albeit of the best players the game has to offer. It should not determine World Series home advantage. I agree with James and Ray on this one.

[sheffield_rocks]

What does the All-Star game have to do with the World Series? This change makes no sense.........the All-Star game is the best players from both leagues having an exhibition game. The World Series is the best TEAM from both leagues battling it out..

[pinstripes]

Originally posted by Big Dawg
I'll tell you this--as a staunch National League fan, I will stuff the ballot box for the WORST American Leaguers at every position if this thing happens.

The worst American Leaguers will still beat up on the National League in the All-Star game! :D

[rockin500]

I'll vote all tigers. :D

[bIgBaLlAs]

I like the idea...

i mean come on guys...you say that the all star game is just an exhibition game...well that is exactly what the league is trying to get away from. The whole thing is getting a little boring because guys just dont care(minus Torii Hunter), and there is just no reward for winning it.

You dont want guys getting injured, thats why you have a homerun derby in the case of a tie.

What could be more meaningful to the players then the World Series. There is no doubt that they would play for that, and it would give the fans something to cheer about.

How could it go wrong?!?!

[Rockin Robin]

It's supposed to be fun. Showcasing the best of the best. If you attach any meaning to it, then it's no longer just for fun.

I personally enjoy watching it to see the best of the best. As I'm sure other baseball fans do. It's about the game, not a team. It's not meant for the casual fan.

I'd rather see it done away with than place stakes on it.

[bIgBaLlAs]

I hear you, but have to disagree. How do you define a game? How do you define best of the best?Raising the stakes will actually turn the game into what you were looking for...it will bring the best out of the best and inspire the players to play the game the way it supposed to be played...

I dont know about you...but I want my team to win when I watch sports, but in the all star games the players dont want to win as muchas the fans want to see them win!

Is there another way the life can be put back in the all star game?

[Rockin Robin]

For starters, turn it back into the best of the best like it used to be, not the best from each team. Not every team has to be represented. There's a big difference between "the best" and "the best from your team."

[pinstripes]

I agree Rockin Robin, they should leave the all-star game alone :)

It is an exhibition game and if they try to make it meaningful, then many of the best players won't even get in the game. Let's face it... if I'm the manager and Pedro or Randy Johnson is on the mound and looking good, I'm not taking them out so some other pitcher can play. Same with Bonds and Sosa.... those guys are going 9 innings if I want to win. :)

[rockin500]

i hate the fact that everyteam needs to be represented. like this year, why should a single tiger make the team? or someone from tampa bay?

i think they should play to win. thats the main reason to play a game. yeah its about fun, but if you arent playing to win, dont play at all.

[bIgBaLlAs]

Originally posted by pinstripes
I agree Rockin Robin, they should leave the all-star game alone :)

It is an exhibition game and if they try to make it meaningful, then many of the best players won't even get in the game. Let's face it... if I'm the manager and Pedro or Randy Johnson is on the mound and looking good, I'm not taking them out so some other pitcher can play. Same with Bonds and Sosa.... those guys are going 9 innings if I want to win. :)

That could happen...but its highly unlikely because its still an allstar game and the coach would be given a lot of shiet of he tried something like that. We all know how whiney pro athletes can be(i.e. Antoine walker and paul pierce) My guess is that everyone may not play, but thats baseball...everyone doesn't always play! It would be more understandable for everyone though, because they are playing for a reason!

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by rockin500
i hate the fact that everyteam needs to be represented. like this year, why should a single tiger make the team? or someone from tampa bay?



HEY:angry:

How about Rocco Baldelli from Tampa??

Dude is hitting .381 with 8 doubles and 15 RBI's:D

Quit picking on my D-Rays Ray;)

[Rockin Robin]

My guess is that everyone may not play, but thats baseball...everyone doesn't always play!

But everybody does get to play these days. That was why the game ended in a tie last year - they ran out of pitchers. :angry:

[bIgBaLlAs]

thats why you dont have extra innings past say 11 innings and then go to home run derby. I think that would be fun...and would give everyone the chance to play!

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by bIgBaLlAs

Is there another way the life can be put back in the all star game?

How about this and I'm just thinking out loud here, but what about changing the format for a few years like the NHL AllStar game??

How about they do a USA vs the World AllStar game to add a little pizzaz to it???

Pedro vs Johnson or Zito

Vlady vs Bonds

Etc......Sort of like a World Cup of baseball concept......

[imgreat95]

I'm not totally sure that a format like that would work. It works in the NHL because there is a HUGE population of foreign born players. I just don't think there is enoough of a base to do that. I could be wrong, though. I was once....

[Baseball Guru]

Again, it was just a thought....

It was a suggestion that no one had suggested.....

Something different.....Just USA born players vs everyone else which would include P.R and Canada....

Here's some of the players that could represent off the top of my head.....

C-Ivan Rodriguez & Benito Santiago & Jorge Posada
1B-Carlos Delgado & Larry Walker
2B-Jose Vidro & Luis Castillo & Alfonso Soriano
SS-Jose Hernandez & Omar Vizquel & Miguel Tejada
3B-Tony Batista & Albert Pujols
OF-Ichiro Suzuki
OF-Andruw Jones
OF-Vlady Guerrero
OF-Sammy Sosa
OF-Manny Ramirez
P-Vicente Padilla
P-Odalis Perez
P-Byung-Hyun Kim
P-Pedro Martinez
P-Freddy Garcia
P-Kazuhiro Sasaki
P-Ugueth Urbina
P-Mariano Rivera
P-Bartolo Colon

[Calder]

That's interesting. Have heard that brought up on talk shows and what have you, and everybody seems to think it would be a cool thing to do. But having said that, I don't see (at least for me, I could be wrong) a major drop-off in the interest of the All-Star Game. Everybody's ticked about the way things ended last year, but I think everybody realizes it's an exhibition and they just go with it. Don't play everybody (which up until three or four years ago was still the case), and don't let every team be represented.

I'd like to know when this rule of every team getting a guy on came into play. It has to be something of the last 30 years I would think. Anybody got info on that. I remember when Torre took a ton of heat from, I believe it was for Mussina, from the Baltimore fans, when he didn't pitch in the home city.

[Baseball Guru]

Oh I agree Calder as the All Star game at least for me, is a game I make a point to see every July...

I love the game itself.....

My suggestion was just an alternative to trying to generate more interest if the major concensus was that the game was loosing interest among fans......

Also, would only want to see it on a trial basis....The NHL went back to the old format this season and that was a nice change for me personally as I liked the USA vs the World format but was happy to see it go back.....

Nice for a little but not permanent change.....

As much as I love the A.S game now and its format, I would not be opposed to seeing a USA vs the World format as a trial....I think it would be interesting......

[Trots]

Guru, I want to keep the World Cup concept seperate from the All-Star Game simply because I want there to be a World Cup someday. I want that event to be special. Baseball needs it to be, too. I don't want to waste one of the few unique moments MLB has left by giving fans a watered down A-S Game version.

Besides, I like the AL vs. NL format if for no other reason than it is a link the the game's history. MLB has spent way too much time trying to be the NFL or NBA. They should just try really hard at being MLB for a change. It's the differences in each sport that make them interesting. History is a huge part of this game, MLB should embrace it as often as possible. The All-Star Game is one of those opportunties.

I'm not convinced the A-S format itself needs much tinkering, anyway. Obviously, a bunch of people watched last year and many seemed to care. I do agree that the players care less than they did fifty years ago, though. I would probably change that by doing two things: First, let everyone know in advance they may not play. Second, increase money allotted to the players and only give it to the winning team. (I know. The losers will cry. So how about a 75/25 split?)

Btw, way to get my boy Rocco's back, J.

[Baseball Guru]

Btw, way to get my boy Rocco's back, J

LoL...No problemo B:D


As I said before, I like the game the way it is now, just offering another suggeston as I dont know if we will ever get to see a World Cup of baseball in our lifetime the way it is going...

I am all for a World Cup btw.....I would be soooooooooo geeked for that!!:thumbsup:

[jackdarc]

Sorry to shake your skillet, but I cannot envision any baseball world cup since it is very obvious that the world is too interested in technology type games nowadays, which are taking over exponentially. For anything like baseball to move into international competition ( i.e. "world" cup) would require a movement back, which won't happen. You might have a few interested countries, but never a quorum enough now.

[Trots]

The only thing stopping it now is MLB. Japan, Australia, Puerto Rico, Mexico, Canada, Dominican Republic and a handful of others would be willing to play. MLB and the MLBPA just need to get off their collective behinds and get moving. Eventually, the cash potential should be too great for even the opposition (whomever that may consist of) to argue with.

[jackdarc]

Originally posted by Baseball Guru
Again, it was just a thought....

It was a suggestion that no one had suggested.....

Something different.....Just USA born players vs everyone else which would include P.R and Canada....

Here's some of the players that could represent off the top of my head.....

C-Ivan Rodriguez & Benito Santiago & Jorge Posada
1B-Carlos Delgado & Larry Walker
2B-Jose Vidro & Luis Castillo & Alfonso Soriano
SS-Jose Hernandez & Omar Vizquel & Miguel Tejada
3B-Tony Batista & Albert Pujols
OF-Ichiro Suzuki
OF-Andruw Jones
OF-Vlady Guerrero
OF-Sammy Sosa

Walker's been an outfielder his whole career
OF-Manny Ramirez
P-Vicente Padilla
P-Odalis Perez
P-Byung-Hyun Kim
P-Pedro Martinez
P-Freddy Garcia
P-Kazuhiro Sasaki
P-Ugueth Urbina
P-Mariano Rivera
P-Bartolo Colon

[Chevy706]

The idea of the winner of the AS Game getting home-field advantage for the WS is a lousy suggestion.

First off, they'd have to change other aspects of the game as well, such as the rule that every team has to have a representative, in order for the idea to work. Lets face it, Brian Giles will probably be the Pirates representative again this year. He blew out his knee earlier this season. You think he's really going to dive for a fly ball on astroturf and potentially re-aggravate the injury so that some other team in the NL can potentially play one more home game than away game in the World Series?

So removing players in that situation would likely require bringing in a lesser talent player or eliminating that teams' representation. As far as I can tell, the rule of having a rep. from every team goes all the way back to the beginning of the AS game. Do we want to take even more of baseball's tradition and throw it out the window for this garbage idea?

Also, does it really matter who has the "home-field advantage" in the World Series? Would the Yankees have lost the WS they swept against the Pads if the series had started in SD?

Finally, why are we talking about changing the game at all? I think, change that, I hope, we all learned something about keeping a bench so that we don't end up with another tie.

[Baseball Guru]

Walker in the outfield

LoL:D

A typo on my part:laughing

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by Chevy706

Also, does it really matter who has the "home-field advantage" in the World Series? Would the Yankees have lost the WS they swept against the Pads if the series had started in SD?


Not in every occasion will it help but I do think it does....Ask any team that is playing if they care and I'm sure the vast majority would say that they would rather be home in case of a game 7....

Take 2001 for example....I think it sure as heck helped the D-Backs rally in the 9th having their home fans behind them.....

Again, I do agree that having the winner of the AS game determine homefield advantage....Bad idea...

I do like the team with the best record having the homefield advantage during WS play......
I still dont see the problem with that.....
It may make some late regular season game that much more important....

[Obri]

I agree. The team with the best record should have home advantage. Using the All Star game to determine home field advantage stinks.:angry:

[imgreat95]

James, while I agree with you that you have cme up[ with a pretty good list of foreign born players, I still don;'t see how it would work. For one, that is a pretty short list. Could we fill an entire roster with foreign born players and have them all still be considered all-star quality?? I have a tough time thinking that we could. Those players, in their best seasons would all be considered all-stars. But, what happens if during some season, 1//2 of them suck, then where do you fuill tour roster from??

Also, I am with Brian and Trots on this one. The All-Star game has become one of the few links to the past which we have left. That, along with the WS home-field rotating every year. My biggest problem with the bnest record winning home field advantage is that do you think that a 100-62 record in the 2-team AL East really means more than having a 98-64 record in a division such as the NL West?

[bIgBaLlAs]

I agree with the Greatness on having the best record determine the home field advantage! I know from the Mariners playing in the AL West that they have it a lot harder then the Twind in the AL Central(who btw arent doing anything anyway!:clap2:

If anything the home field advantage should just stay the same! In that way both leagues will have equal oppertunies at winning the World Series!

However, on the guys from bad teams not wanting to try because they wouldn't have a chance at the World Series anyway... I disagree! That is their only time to shine, and they are going to want to do it on that stage if they ever want to get out of the hole they are in!:banghead

[Baseball Guru]

Ughhhh:ugh:

I am not saying we SHOULD change the game....You say your with Brian on this one but the fact is as I have stated I am as well...I was just offering another thought for those that do not like the current format....

As I have said before, I watch the game EVERY year and have no problem with its current format......

If I had my way we'd keep the AS game the same way and create some sort of World Cup....

The short list I provided were mostly all AllStars last season...

I listed 28 players....

[imgreat95]

James, please point to me the part where I said you said they SHOULD change it??!!!

I'm cconfused.