Who makes your alltime deadball era team??

[Baseball Guru]

Alltime deadball era:

Starting lineup

2B: Eddie Collins
OF: Tris Speaker
OF: Ty Cobb
OF: Joe Jackson
SS: Honus Wagner
1B: Hal Chase
3B: Home Run Baker
C: Roger Bresnahan

SP: Walter Johnson
SP: Christy Mathewson
SP: Grover Cleveland Alexander
SP: Three Finger Brown

Honorable mention position players: Nap Lajoie (2B and SS), Sam Crawford (OF), Jimmy Collins (3B), Willie Keeler (OF), Zack Wheat (OF), and Frank Chance (1B and C).

Honorable mention bullpen: Cy Young, Addie Joss, Eddie Plank, Ed Walsh, Rube Waddell, Chief Bender, Smoky Joe Wood.

[Baseball Guru]

Am I going a little too far back for you guys???:confused:

[Trots]

How did I miss this thread? Anyway, James it's hard to argue with your lineup. If there was any serious debate, clearly much of it would be focused on the mound. Can't imagine too many all-anything teams without Joss, Plank, Walsh, etc... However, I'm not about to change the four hurlers you selected.

Personally, the only change I might make is Collins at third. Are my eras off, or did you omit Harry Heilmann for a reason? If HH played when I thought he did, he would certainly merit honorable mention.

When do you consider the start of the Dead Ball Era? Do guys like "King" Kelly pre-date this era?

[imgreat95]

i think that the dead ball era pretty much dates anything pre-1920 ish....

I think James, that it is pretty tough to argue with the selectioons that you have made here. That is assuming of course that you only listed Johnson ahead of Mathewson because it is alphabetical order..:biggrin:

Trots I think that the big reason the Heilmann was left off was simply because he was predominatly an outfielder and it is hard to put him on a list ahead of guys like Jackson, Cobb, and Speaker. I think that is the same thing with King Kelly. Since there is a 25 man roster, i think it is hard to even give these 2 guy honorable mention.

[Baseball Guru]

Yes Trots, Shawn is correct about the dead ball era pretty much being pre-1920-ish...
Harry Heilmann was a great player but if you look at his stats he really didn't turn it up till 1921 when he was very, very good.....
From 1914 till 1918 he never even hit over .300....His run through 1921 thru 1930 is as good as anyones but can't be included because that really wasn't the dead ball era....
Now King Kelly while he played in the 1800's and would qualify he just doesn't have the #'s that some of the others have...
And yes Shawn, Walter is there #1 because of alphabetical order...
Thats why Alexander and Brown are 3 and 4....Heehee:biggrin:

[Trots]

OK, I've been put in my place. No Heilmann or Kelly.

Do either of you feel their is a more definitive date for the end of the era? Was one year in the twenties the turning point in your opinion?

[Baseball Guru]

I have a book called: "Dead Ball :Major League Baseball Before Babe Ruth" by Thomas Gilbert and he describes the deadball era ending with the 1919 season...
I think that before 1920 no one had more than 29 homeruns which Ruth hit in 1919 and in 1920 the dead ball era ended when Ruth hit 54 HR's....

[Baseball Guru]

Bring this back top for all the new members to see....

[Baseball Guru]

Bump:D

[Durango53]

Originally posted by Baseball Guru

I think that before 1920 no one had more than 29 homeruns which Ruth hit in 1919 and in 1920 the dead ball era ended when Ruth hit 54 HR's....
Back then homeruns were looked down upon.. Sure people hit them but at the time place hits and stealing was the game. Just like today stealing isnt the game and waiting for the big boom is. The game changes all the time. What is the game going to look like in 20 years? Who knows but thats what makes it fun!!!

[Obri]

This is a cool topic James. Unfortunately, my limited baseball history knowledge means that I couldn't offer any alternatives to the lineup you suggested. That looks fine to me.

[PopTop]

Originally posted by Baseball Guru
2B: Eddie Collins
OF: Tris Speaker
OF: Ty Cobb
OF: Joe Jackson
SS: Honus Wagner
1B: Hal Chase
3B: Home Run Baker
C: Roger Bresnahan

SP: Walter Johnson
SP: Christy Mathewson
SP: Grover Cleveland Alexander
SP: Three Finger Brown






Ok, I'd have to put Lajoie at 2B I'm afraid, he'd also bat 3rd and Cobb would lead off.

ALso would go with Frank Chance at 1B over Chase who wouldn't even make my team ... Cobb was a real butthead, but CHase was a butthead and a crook (Never bought into Jackson being a crook, just stupid).

And I'd have to get Cy Young into my top 4 arms, no doubt at the expense of Pete or 3-Finger ... If I could keep him sober and in shape, Rube would make the top 4-5.

Hey, never thought of this before ... What if you could have a bullpen that included both Mordecai Brown and Antonio Alfonseca! :freak: Can you imagine trying to relate to them as their pitching coach .............. "No Mordecai, hold it like this" ... Tony, you gotta' get all 6 knuckles on the ball if you really want to learn this pitch."

[Baseball Guru]

Ok, I'd have to put Lajoie at 2B I'm afraid, he'd also bat 3rd and Cobb would lead off.

I could go with Lajoie at 2nd.....Dont think you could go wrong with Lajoie or Collins.....:D

I didnt list them in order by a lineup just to let you know Willie:D


If so I think I would do the following:

Cobb
Collins
Jackson
Wagner
Speaker
Baker
Chase
Bresnahan


I wouldn't put Young in there but I guess if I HAD to take one out I think I would take Brown out over Grover....Can't ignore his 373 wins:D
Although it is hard to ignore Three-Finger's 2.08 career era....

So do we take the guy with the 3rd most wins of alltime or the guy with the 6th best era of alltime...
Ughhhh, decisaions, decisions:ugh:

[PopTop]

For not putting it down in lineup order, you did a good job anyway!

Yeah, touhg calls on the pitchers, heck, tough calls on a lot of them ... That's why it's so much fun.

[Baseball Guru]

Thank you sir!!
It really is fun to debate about this stuff...

I wish we had more peeps involved:(

[Durango53]

I tryed to go diffenet than all of you. I wanted to pick players that you didnt pick. So here is my 25 man dead ball roster...
Starting lineup

1B: Buck Freeman
2B: Larry Doyle
SS: John McGraw
3B: Tommy Leach
OF: Mike Donlin
OF: Ed Delahanty
OF: Gavvy Cravath
C: Johnny Kling

SP: Ed Reulbach
SP: Eddie Cicotte (cheater but still could pitch)
SP: Dummy Taylor
SP: Babe Ruth (He was a dead ball pitcher)
Pen
Carl Mays
Doc White
Jesse Tannehill (LHP,OF)
Deacon Phillippe

Honorable mention position players:
Ginger Beaumont(OF) Jake Beckley(1ST) Jesse Burkett(OF) Fred Clarke(OF) Elmer Flick(OF) Buck Freeman(OF,1ST) George Van Haltren (OF,IF,LHP) Sherry Magee(1st,OF) Sam Rice(OF)



My dead ball team can beat your dead ball team!!!

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by Durango53
I tryed to go diffenet than all of you. I wanted to pick players that you didnt pick. So here is my 25 man dead ball roster...
Starting lineup

1B: Buck Freeman
2B: Larry Doyle
SS: John McGraw
3B: Tommy Leach
OF: Mike Donlin
OF: Ed Delahanty
OF: Gavvy Cravath
C: Johnny Kling

SP: Ed Reulbach
SP: Eddie Cicotte (cheater but still could pitch)
SP: Dummy Taylor
SP: Babe Ruth (He was a dead ball pitcher)
Pen
Carl Mays
Doc White
Jesse Tannehill (LHP,OF)
Deacon Phillippe

Honorable mention position players:
Ginger Beaumont(OF) Jake Beckley(1ST) Jesse Burkett(OF) Fred Clarke(OF) Elmer Flick(OF) Buck Freeman(OF,1ST) George Van Haltren (OF,IF,LHP) Sherry Magee(1st,OF) Sam Rice(OF)



My dead ball team can beat your dead ball team!!!


Good team, but not better than mine;)

[Durango53]

Originally posted by Baseball Guru
Good team, but not better than mine;)
Well get them rounded up and lets see it on the field!!! My players are chomping at the bit to play!!!! :)

[Durango53]

Originally posted by Durango53
I tryed to go diffenet than all of you. I wanted to pick players that you didnt pick. So here is my 25 man dead ball roster...
Starting lineup

1B: Buck Freeman
2B: Larry Doyle
SS: John McGraw
3B: Tommy Leach
OF: Mike Donlin
OF: Ed Delahanty
OF: Gavvy Cravath
C: Johnny Kling

SP: Ed Reulbach
SP: Eddie Cicotte (cheater but still could pitch)
SP: Dummy Taylor
SP: Babe Ruth (He was a dead ball pitcher)
Pen
Carl Mays
Doc White
Jesse Tannehill (LHP,OF)
Deacon Phillippe

Honorable mention position players:
Ginger Beaumont(OF) Jake Beckley(1ST) Jesse Burkett(OF) Fred Clarke(OF) Elmer Flick(OF) Buck Freeman(OF,1ST) George Van Haltren (OF,IF,LHP) Sherry Magee(1st,OF) Sam Rice(OF)



My dead ball team can beat your dead ball team!!!
Sorry I just cut Sam Rice for Tip O'Neill (P,OF)