What do you expect in '04?

[Trots]

I'm hoping for sweeping changes this off-season, but I know that probably won't/can't happen, so I am left wondering what do I expect from this team in 2004?

It would seem that shy of a minor miracle this team would lose another 100 games in '04. While exactly 100 losses would be an improvement, maybe even a significant one, that just doesn't have me all excited about next season.

What do you hope for from this organization in the next twelve months?

[~*TiGeRs f@N*~]

I think you are going to see the same group of guys but a completely different team if you know what I mean. To me they have proven that they have talent and potential and they will show us it in 2004!

Go Tigers! :gt:

[Trots]

If you mean the players they have now are just going to play much better, then I do understand. If that's not what you mean, then I am lost.

[~*TiGeRs f@N*~]

LoL I guarentee that they will win at least 80 games next season... and if they don't Brian, me and you are gonna go to a game on me! :D

:gt:

[Trots]

Eighty is a lot of wins from this group. Unless they make some wonderful trades, get Munson and/or Pena to become all-star caliber players AND get some rookie(s) to contend for ROTY, you are going to be buying me a ticket. Keep your money handy, Jen.

I hope you are right, though. That would be amazing.

[Baseball Guru]

90 losses at least next year.....

As B said, save your money cause you are gonna be taking him to a game Jen:D

Is food included:umm

[PissedPrincess]

I'm with Jen. KC was a DISASTER last year. Now they're a playoff contender.

GO TIGERS IN 2004!

[~*TiGeRs f@N*~]

You know something Brain, just the hope in it's self (and the fact that I am going to see a game regardless :D) is worth the money!

[BPBlueSox]

LoL I guarentee that they will win at least 80 games next season... and if they don't Brian, me and you are gonna go to a game on me!

80 wins? Damn! Can I have some of what you're smoking? It must be some good sh!t! :D

[~*TiGeRs f@N*~]

Originally posted by BPBlueSox
80 wins? Damn! Can I have some of what you're smoking? It must be some good sh!t! :D

Keep the faith buddy, keep the faith!

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by BPBlueSox
80 wins? Damn! Can I have some of what you're smoking? It must be some good sh!t! :D

:evillol :evillol

[Tigers#1]

Like i said in another thread, they need to get mid-level veterans in the off season, and develop some of these young guys. We don't need stud free agents to build with, because that'll do very little for this organization to grow IMO. I hope they add several mid-level players who will perform here, we need one of these young guys, Bonderman, Munson, Pena, etc., to become a Mike Sweeney/Carlos Beltran-type player, that we can build around. Ilitch need's to spend money on guys who can help with building a good organization, not win now.

As for their record next season, they need to improve by 20 games minimum, and show some kind of life. They don't need to contend, just show they have the ability too.

[racosun]

I'm sure Dombrowski will do a lot of 'tweaking' to the lineup, like trading a few guys to patch some holes, acquiring a few more young prospects, sign a mid-level vet or two. I'm with Jen on this one, 80 wins is not out of the question. But then again I'm not quite as optimistic, so I'll say they win somewhere's between 50-70 games in 2004.

[~*TiGeRs f@N*~]

Originally posted by racosun
I'm sure Dombrowski will do a lot of 'tweaking' to the lineup, like trading a few guys to patch some holes, acquiring a few more young prospects, sign a mid-level vet or two. I'm with Jen on this one, 80 wins is not out of the question. But then again I'm not quite as optimistic, so I'll say they win somewhere's between 50-70 games in 2004.

I love this guy! :D he's always on my side! ;)

[Trots]

That or racosun also has access to an unlimited supply of Canadian beer.

I do have a serious question, though. What makes anyone think Ilitch is going to spend a dime? He has claimed on several occasions that he will not spend until the Tigers are ready to compete. That won't be next season.

As for the potential lineup changes, how on Earth is DD going to trade off any of these guys? They've been awful. Few are viewed as worth trading for. Even if they could, what kind of player(s) would Detroit get in return?

Adding a couple of FAs, trading for some veterans and acquiring prospects seems like more than "tweaking" to me. That's seems like a lot of transactions. I do expect DD to try and make lots of deals, but the players coming back wouldn't be perceived as much better than the guys he ships out. That doesn't lend itself to a significantly better season.

In the end, any hope of a twenty game plus improvement comes down to either Pena or Munson (or both) becoming stars, plus getting quite a bit of help from players not currently getting paid by the Tigers.

Sure eighty wins is possible. Anything is possible. However, I just don't know how they can get there without huge changes that don't seem probable right now.

[racosun]

Regardless of what Illitch says, he has to make an attempt at getting better NOW. How is he ever going to compete if the fans know they are getting a terrible club year after year? He needs seats filled, and if they aren't any better next year, CoPa will be even that much more empty. It's a shame too. Such a beautiful place to watch baseball.

There will be plenty of off-season transactions, believe me. I call it 'tweaking' because we're not going to go out and get someone like Big Bad Vlad or any other high-profile free-agents. We're going to add a piece, subtract a piece, and make the picture a little bit more clear and in the mold of Dombrowski. We're still erasing the "future" Randy Smith gave us (this season's failure can be chalked up to Smith still).

We will get better next season, I have no doubt about that. I mean, can we get any worse? We have acquired a few good prospects that I hope will develop, and a few of the youngsters on the team right now will improve. Bonderman has a full season under his belt at the age of 20, and Maroth's psychological trials of the season will make him all the more crafty. I think 50-70 wins is a reasonable prediction.

[reprap]

I think the following players will be gone.

Shane Halter
Brandon Inge
Bobby Higginson (via trade)
Matt Anderson
Matt Walbeck
Dean Palmer
Nate Cornejo
Jamie Walker


These will be sweeping changes, I think this team will look totally different from what the Tiger orginization has put out there this year. You may have noticed they did not pick up any frre agents during the off season last year. This was a wasted year. Everyone knew that. Dombrowski just wanted to make this year go away. Alot of the fat that is on this team will be trimmed away due to contracts running out. That is Halter Paquette, Easley, Palmer and I believe Lima.

[Trots]

I agree and disagree, reprap. Halter and Palmer will be gone, but that's because they will be free agents. Halter will want out and Palmer will probably retire.

The Tigs would love to unload the contracts of Higgy and Anderson, but unless they are part of a big deal where the Tigers are eating someone else's dead contract weight, they are staying. They'be been trying to trade Higginson for years with no success and Anderson didn't exactly increase his trade value in Toledo.

Right now most people reading this have more trade value than Walker (a lefty set-up guy who no one wanted at the trade deadline), Inge (who has only proved he can hit for four weeks every two years) and Walbeck (who hit so poorly in a part-time role with the worst team in the league that he got demoted). Again, even if they could trade them, you would be getting the same type of players in exchange, unless they were part of a package deal in which numerous players traded uniforms.

Even if the club lost Halter, Anderson, Walbeck, Palmer and Inge, I'm not sure I would consider it "sweeping" change. Anderson didn't do a thing here this year, Palmer hasn't done much in several years, so in my mind the Tigers would be "losing" something they never had. Kind of liking missing Craig Paquette.

Halter is a utility player, not an everyday player. The Tigers have quite a few guys currently playing for them who could fill that role. Walbeck has become a weak hitting, once-a-week catcher. He's a nice veteran influence guy, but a contributor? Not really. Inge has good "tools", but other than a month of hitting and some good defense (last year's arm injury aside), it would be hard to call his departure a "loss". He simply hasn't done enough to be missed.

Unfortunately, the only contracts coming off the books, I think are Palmer, Paquette, Halter and Sparks. The Tigers still pay Easley through next season and, I believe, Lima's deal ended at the close of last year. That's why he got the same treatment at the end of '02 that Sparks did this year. Of course, I do think they stop writing checks to Phil Garner and Randy Smith this December, if that's any consolation.

If they can get Higginson's and Anderson's contracts off the books, I guess that would be a "sweeping" change, but if they don't spend that money elsewhere, it would be more of the same.

I do agree (and hope) that a number of players should be sent packing, but for me sweeping change means not only getting rid of players, but acquiring new ones. I'm not quite convinced how the Tigers are going to pull that off. Although, I hope you are correct and the sweeping change does occur.

racosun, I agree that 50-70 is reasonable. That's because that's a twenty game spread. Even if the kitties get to 40 wins this year, winning a paltry ten more next year after some off-season tweaking, leaves them thirty-one wins away from mediocre. That's still a long way from being good and wouldn't have any of us too excited (Jen, notwithstanding).

The only exception would be if a few prospects made the team and emerged as HOF caliber talent. If that were the case, I suspect the 50 win total would be exceeded anyway.

Now, if they get to seventy W's in 2004, a little more off-season tweaking before '05 (plus a few more kids arrive and produce) and you've got yourself a team that might contend for the AL Central. That kind of increase in wins would have Jen sleeping outside Comerica Park waiting to buy playoff tickets. I might even start getting excited about the club, again. (I should clarify, I mean excited beyond April.)

I do concur that it might not take much to "win" between 50-70, we must remember most other crappy teams do pull that off every year, but our outlook on a team that musters 50 victories after winning only 40 the year before versus a team that captures seventy wins after being historically bad would be dramatic. One outlook has Dombrowski, Trammell and company in danger of being fired, the other has them on the verge of sainthood.

For me, at this second, I'll take the middle. A sixty win season is unfortunately acceptable. How they are going to improve twenty games is the question I pin my interest on.