On the DH...

[Jimbo21]

... it is a topic that has been talked about for 25 years... how do you feel about it? It was touched upon in another thread, but I'd like to see some extended thoughts on this topic.

The DH takes jobs away from nearly 20 young players every year...
It is nice to extend the career of good players, but it then skews the all time records...
It allows the kind of cowardly headhunting that goes on in the AL...
It just isn't baseball as the game is designed

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.:Jimbo21:.

[Baseball Guru]

I agree with all you said Jimbo....
Ban the DH!!!!

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"Man may penetrate the outer reaches of the universe, he may solve the very secret of eternity itself, but for me, the ultimate human experience is to witness the flawless execution of a hit-and-run."

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[Baseball Guru]

Here is Bob Costas' point of view on the DH:

A clue to the thinking baseball needs more of can be found in the owners' innovative approach to eliminating the DH. The owners have proposed to the players association that the DH be phased out over time, with a permanent extra roster spot added in return. This offer is so fair and reasonable the players association ought to be embarrassed to reject it.

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It's further proof (as if any were needed) the players association, which once owned the moral high ground and fought for fair and honorable goals, is now committed to little more than greed. The players association is run by intelligent and honest people, but that's not the same as being reasonable. And it has become too easy to confuse stubborn self-interest with integrity.

The time has come for the DH to go. The conditions that existed when it was brought into the game with the 1973 season no longer exist. In the early '70s, baseball was still recovering from an offensive famine. A batting title was won at .301 in 1968. An entire league batted .239 in the '72 season. Home run titles could be won with figures in the low 30s. In 1968, 21 percent of all games were shutouts.

Now, a generation later, offense is way up -- even approaching the point of distortion in the A.L. And it is generally conceded, even among fans who reflexively defend the DH, that the permutations of the game are more interesting in the N.L. This doesn't mean a genius is needed to execute a double-switch, only that the strategy brought into the game by making the pitcher hit adds a texture and complexity worth preserving.

Baseball is simply a better game without the DH.

The owners are on the right track with their offer to trade jobs for concessions. The shame is they arrived at this approach so late. Had they divined this kind of solution for the DH four years ago, it might have led them to a larger vision that would have given them a chance to accomplish something significant in their last disastrous go-round with the players. We'll get to that later.

So for the time being, the answers are direct: Don't make major moves with long-term implications just to address relatively minor problems. Make changes when the best chance exists to do so intelligently and permanently. For now, work on negotiating a phase-out of the DH, put major realignment on ice until the next round of expansion and keep interleague play as a limited but significant part of baseball's future. With those things in place, baseball can turn its attention to the real problem.


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"Man may penetrate the outer reaches of the universe, he may solve the very secret of eternity itself, but for me, the ultimate human experience is to witness the flawless execution of a hit-and-run."

LETS GO METS!!!

HELP BE AN ADDICT AND CLICK ON AN AD!!

[Baseball Guru]

Major League Baseball is in the middle of consolidating the American and the National Leagues. With this happening, one cross-league difference would need to be cleared up before all is settled. The National and American League offices are gone, the Umpires are no longer restricted to one league at a time, but there is one final sticking point on finishing the consolidation, that matter is the DH. This is not a campaign to snub out Edgar Martinez as a baseball player. This is not a campaign driven to get rid of Jose Canseco, Harold Baines and other talented batters who do not play the field. This happens to be a campaign to bring an end a useless position and help deflate the box score that I see climbing higher and higher each season. A position that is simply benefiting the Players Association, and fans of pinball machine baseball or the juiced ball scenario.

Player's careers are extended by the DH and that is one thing that makes the Players Association very happy. 500 Home Runs for Eddie Murray would not have been achieved if he had not played DH to end his career. That feels as if the event were cheapened. Do you believe Eddie Murray is a prolific (dare I say Legendary) first baseman to go with Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, Mark McGwire, Willie Mays and the like, as being a player that was so good that he hit over 500 HR's in his career? Certainly not. Eddie was a great ball player, but I do not think letting him reach the coveted 500 HR mark by DH-ing was proving he was great at what he did. It was just an event to which his name can be credited. "Eddie Murray, 1st Baseman, 500 Home Runs" Eddie was a great hitter, great in the clubhouse, poor when it came to media relations... He was not a prolific home run hitter, however.

If a player is good, he doesn't need the DH to reach the apex of 500 home runs in his career (or 3000 hits or other statistical milestones). Play the field, do your job, do it well and then you get your chance to bat. The DH cheapens this. A guy earning his chance to bat doesn't happen. He is handed a bat and told to hit the ball, run the bases and sit down until his next turn to bat... Requiring so little skill that Pete Rose could have been playing as a DH well into the 1990's instead of coaching the Reds.

Then there is the argument that the National League is the only league in baseball - professional or otherwise - that doesn't use the Designated Hitter. This is true, but let me ask you this - are the guys in the other leagues (non-MLB) being paid ridiculous sums of money to get a chance to play? No. They are playing out of passion. Out of desire. Out of a love for Baseball and a desire to compete. Major League baseball is a business, a cold, sad fact that is commonly known today It's not little Billy getting a chance to play with his buddies in a Little League game... Its Jose Canseco taking home several million dollars a year for smacking the ball (or striking out), making some comments to reporters, and going home.

The item that distinguishes the National League and the American League is the fact that strategy is taken away in the AL by the DH. Numerous times I have had DH advocates tell me, "You're wrong"... But when player's themselves say it? How wrong can I be? "I think the National League is a better league," stated Fred McGriff of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays in a March 10th, 2000 article by Joe Henderson in the Tampa Tribune, "The managers have to manage over there (NL). Over here (AL) you just make out the lineup and let'em play. Over there, you have to pinch-hit, double switch, that type of thing."

Strategy, Fred? Remember folks, this guy has played for teams in both leagues for a long, long time (Blue Jays, Padres, Braves, etc).

One other age old argument that DH supporters use is "Who wants to watch a pitcher bat? Who wants to watch someone make a futile effort at the plate that doesn't amount too much at all?" The entire sticking point about the Designated Hitter. The case is this - If a pitcher bats, then strategy gets used due to rules that were instilled in baseball long before the Designated Hitter was even a thought. If a pitcher gets to sit and another guy gets to bat for the pitcher position, baseball no longer becomes a thinking man's game. Managers do not manage, they send people up to bat and hope for the best. Can you imagine chess without trying to figure out how to get your opponents king, but instead think of how you can get the most pieces and still lose the game?


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"Man may penetrate the outer reaches of the universe, he may solve the very secret of eternity itself, but for me, the ultimate human experience is to witness the flawless execution of a hit-and-run."

LETS GO METS!!!

HELP BE AN ADDICT AND CLICK ON AN AD!!

[loser69]

NO MORE DH.

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Baseball is the best sport.

[MetsGirl814]

I think the DH is stupid. It's like saying wow our pitchers REALLY can't hit. I really hate the idea of a DH. Pitchers are usually terrible hitters. Yes. But it's part of the game. Besides it's a chance to watch some bunting. Among other things...it eliminates the idea of taking a pitcher out and using a pinch hitter b/c you need a big hit. If there is a DH then the pitcher can stay in the game and perhaps get a complete game w/o ever having to hit.

Are there more complete games in the AL than the NL?

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'86 was a great year.
Mets won the 'series...
I was born...
What more could ya ask for?

[Jamal Jenkins]

Theres a problem here, if there was no DH were would Edgar Martinez play? I enjoy watching him hit and in a way he reminds me of our very own Edgardo Alfonzo. Overall though i say get rid of the DH its time to even things out and fix the leagues so that they are both the same, and i too love watching managers pull plys off like bunting guys over with the pitcher or pinch hitting for a pitcher and bringing in other bullpen guys. It's just more fun that way in my opinion

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He's a ghost and he writes to us.......GHOST WRITER

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by Jamal Jenkins:
Theres a problem here, if there was no DH were would Edgar Martinez play?



Now I enjoy watching Edgar as well so he would just have to adjust and go back to playing 3rd or 1st...As great of a player he is, I'm sure they would find a position for him..It would make him more of a complete player....


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"Man may penetrate the outer reaches of the universe, he may solve the very secret of eternity itself, but for me, the ultimate human experience is to witness the flawless execution of a hit-and-run."

LETS GO METS!!!

HELP BE AN ADDICT AND CLICK ON AN AD!!

[wervl]

I think the DH should both be in the AL and the NL because I don't like to see pitchers hit. Even though pitcher Mike Hampton of the Colorado Rockies is one of the best hitting pitchers in the NL.

lets go Mets

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[Jimbo21]

Originally posted by Jamal Jenkins:
Theres a problem here, if there was no DH were would Edgar Martinez play?



Edgar is a good case in point. So was Paul Molitor and Harold Baines. I really think that the game is designed for players that can play both sides of the ball. Don't you think that there were other, old-timers that would've added to their stats with the DH as an option? When a player can no longer go both ways, he needs to become a bench player, step aside, or maybe work on moving to a position where he can continue to play in the field. The DH has warped many of the fundimentals of the game, records, pitching, and it has robbed young players of an opportunity to advance to the next level.


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.:Jimbo21:.

[Baseball Guru]

Thats exactly the same thing I was thinking Jimbo..You just put it into better words than I http://forum.addictsports.com/baseball/ubb/wink.gif

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"Man may penetrate the outer reaches of the universe, he may solve the very secret of eternity itself, but for me, the ultimate human experience is to witness the flawless execution of a hit-and-run."

LETS GO METS!!!

HELP BE AN ADDICT AND CLICK ON AN AD!!