Roy, Of Siegfried And Roy, Hurt

[Nanner]

:rant:

As much as I hope he has a speedy recovery, I must say something. This is the second incident in a week where someone has been hurt because people insist on putting wild animals on display for the enjoyment of the general public. (To say nothing of the millions of dollars Siegfriend and Roy have earned from their act.) Granted, this tiger was born in captivity, and the gorilla that attacked the child and the teenager in Boston this week was also born in captivity. But these are wild animals. As much as human beings think they can control them, they have instincts that cannot be genetically "weeded out". I hate zoos for this reason. I hate stuff like Siegfried and Roy's act. These are animals that should be out in the wild living their lives.

And, invariably, in cases like this, the animal is blamed for the attack.:hmm:

Magician Roy Horn Critically Injured by Tiger
By ADAM GOLDMAN, AP


LAS VEGAS (Oct. 4) - A trained tiger attacked magician Roy Horn of the duo Siegfried & Roy during a performance, biting his neck and dragging him off stage just feet from the audience. Horn's manager said Saturday the illusionist underwent surgery and was in critical condition.

People attending the show Friday night at The Mirage hotel-casino said the white tiger lunged at Horn shortly after he led it on stage, and that he tried to beat the animal off with a microphone.

``We honestly thought it was part of the show, we didn't know what was going on,'' said Sharna Wiblen, who was in the audience. Andy Cushman, also in the audience, said Horn ``looked like a rag doll'' as the tiger dragged him off the stage.

The illusionist was taken to a hospital and underwent surgery to the neck area, Horn's longtime manager, Bernie Yuman, said Saturday. He said Horn's doctors said the surgery went as expected and that Horn was in critical but stable condition.

``The overwhelming likelihood is that we'll have to wait two or three days before we really understand the full extent of these injuries,'' Mirage spokesman Alan Feldman said.

Horn had never been injured during a show before, Yuman said Friday, ``not a scratch, not by an animal.''

Feldman said Horn, who turned 59 on Friday, had a serious injury to the left side of his neck. Horn was able to talk with the ambulance staff on the way to the hospital, Clark County Fire spokesman Bob Leinbach said.

Horn, the dark-haired member of the duo, appeared alone on stage with the tiger about 45 minutes into the show, Cushman said. After the attack, Cushman said, Siegfried Fischbacher appeared on stage and said the performance was canceled.

Hotel officials said the show has been canceled indefinitely. The tiger involved in the attack, a 7-year-old male named Montecore, was quarantined at the hotel, officials said. Feldman said Saturday that although the tiger was called a newcomer during the performance, that was just part of the act and he actually had performed in the show for several years.

``Roy is a very, very strong-willed person as well as having physical strength,'' Yuman said. ``I'm cautiously optimistic.''

He thanked friends and fans who have sent their support. ``It's touching to hear from so many people all at a short time,'' Yuman said.

The illusionists' show, with its signature white tigers and lions, is one of the most well-known and expensive in Las Vegas.

The German-born pair perform six shows a week and have been performing in Las Vegas for more than 30 years. They signed a lifetime contract with the Mirage in 2001.


10-04-03 16:02ET

[Rockin Robin]

Wow, what a shame.

I could definitely understand your position, Nanner, but I must admit that my feelings are mixed. I really enjoy going to see these animals at zoos. In fact, I'm dying to go to the Bronx Zoo to see the baby Siberian tigers.

But I would much rather see the animals roaming free in their natural habitat, with viewing areas, then be in cages.


I wish a speedy recovery to Roy.

[PopTop]

This is a pickle of a question, and probably one that we should all tread lightly with ... I personally think there are some very responsible people doing work in both the wild and zoos and aquariums ... At the same time, there is a lot that is wrong in those places and in other venues like an animal act like this or rodeos, etc. ... I get it from both sides myself ... I have people telling me that I shouldn't be feeding the deer on our property, that it harms them because they learn to trust me and then trust some mush-brain hunter who kills them ... I have others telling me I should put up a game fence and keep them all out because they can be "destructive" to the grasses and vegetation :notme: Catch-22 if there ever was one, both sides make valid points.

But my final decision is that I will help them out and try to gain their trust a little, we're pinching them out of their natural habitat, and I get info from the vet and from the Texas Wildlife Department on the best way to try and co-exist with not only deer but the other cool little creatures out here, even down to the "bad ones" like the scorpions and snakes ... It's just s shame the entire world didn't adopt Chief Seattle's environmental stand 150 years ago. :(

Hope this guy recovers and turns it into a positive somehow.

[Nanner]

I totally understand what each of you is saying. And, Willie..... you're right...... it's a fine line...... what exactly is disturbing the natural order of things, and what is helping out because, in the case of deer, we are, indeed, gradually encroaching on their territory.

My main concern has always been wild animals in captivity. It was that dang "Bambi" movie my mom took me to when I was 5 years old. "Man" does not disturb life in the forest. It's a bad thing.

My heroes are the people who do their research in the animals' natural environments...... sit quietly by and watch them and study them, without disturbing them. Dianne Fossey and Jane Goodall. Zoos, even though they've changed alot over the years, and do alot of research, and try to duplicate an animal's environment - still depress the hell out of me. But that's just me. And don't even get me started on circuses and elephants! :angry:

So, back to my original rant. Siegfried and Roy make millions of dollars off captive tigers who they train and treat like pets - and people come and see their shows, and these beautiful creatures are put on display and made to perform. To my mind, S & R are no better than the people who put elephants on display in circuses.

But I wish Roy a speedy recovery. And I hope he reconsiders his way of making a living. (Oh. Harsh.)

Oh, geez. I do go on, don't I. :nut:

[Nanner]

But my final decision is that I will help them out and try to gain their trust a little, we're pinching them out of their natural habitat, and I get info from the vet and from the Texas Wildlife Department on the best way to try and co-exist with not only deer but the other cool little creatures out here, even down to the "bad ones" like the scorpions and snakes

Oh, and this is an excellent way of learning how to live with all the wild creatures around you, I think! ...... (scorpions included..... yikes.... :eek: )

[Rockin Robin]

Here's another great story. I wasn't able to find the link on the channel that aired the story.


A man in Harlem had a three or four year old 320-pound tiger and a five foot alligator that he kept as pets in his 5th floor walkup. While he was in the hospital recovering from a bite from the tiger (minor injury). I didn't really hear if the neighbors called the police or exactly what the details of the story were, but police an ASPCA officials rappelled down to the apartment, and used a series of tranquilizer darts to sedate the tiger, then took the unconcious animal out on a stretcher.

Both pets were in excellent health, and are being shipped to a zoo in Ohio. The owner was unable to be located, after being released from the hospital earlier in the day.


Unfrigginbelievable.

[uj4l]

my friends dog got hit and now has 3 legs! :cry: sad! lucky he is alive tho

[Nanner]

Robin, I heard that on the news last night! :eek: You're right! "Unfrigginbelievable!"

Willie, you reminded me....... once I went to Fire Island and there are deer all over the place there. You'd walk out the door and they'd be there with those big eyes and long eyelashes, looking for all the world like, "Breakfast? I'm here for breakfast? Where's my donut?" I loved that! :clap:

my friends dog got hit and now has 3 legs!

Poor puppy. :( But he's alive! I bet he's gonna be fine with 3 legs. I always feel sorry for dogs I see with 3 legs, but they seem to get along fine.

[PopTop]

Rockin R, that is one of the best examples of ignorance and, even though the animals were in good shape physically, it's also just totally irresponsible and inhumane ... That's the guy who should've had a more serious tiger bite! :angry:

Nanner, your Fire Isle story reminds me of the first time I really got to see Jersey ... We left the Rutgers area about 3-4 in the morning and drove down to Atlantic City (not knowing when we got there the casinos would be closed. Who closes casinos? :notme: ) ... Anyway, we're on the Garden State Parkway and I see this sign that says "Watch for Deer" ... I thought it was a joke, never knew that there were so many deer in that area (Jersey and animals in the wild still don't go together in my mind) ... Next thing I know, we're seeing deer by the thousands ... I made my buddies stop and peel off on a road lesser traveled because i wanted to get up as close to them as I could to try and really see how big they were and what little physical differences they might have from the deer down here ... If I had a bag of corn and a sack lunch or two with me back then, I'd have had my buddies drop me in the field and come back for me a day later.

[PissedPrincess]

Nanner, I totally agree. You lock up wild animals what the eff do you expect?

[Obri]

Okay, i've never really thought much about stuff like this before. Forgive me, but i'm a 19 year old red blooded male, there is too much other stuff to think about inside this relatively small head.:D

But you put forward some interesting points Nan. Unfortunately, us humans have suffered from ignorance for a long time, and there appears to be no end in sight. We've long enjoyed being in a position where we're in charge of everything. At least, we think we are! But every so often, something like the stories in this thread happens, to remind us otherwise. And do we learn our lesson. Hell, no!:angry:

Okay, i'm done.:D

[RockieBill]

I dunno - I thought it was cool to see the Tigers finally win one! *groan*

Animals in captivity are also a sore spot with me, Nanner, but maybe from a different perspective. Like you, I deplore the treatment of animals in traveling shows, and circus owners should pretty much be rounded up and horsewhipped.

My problem is with the people that keep these animals. Once you deprive an animal of his freedom, that animal is now totally dependent on you for it's very existence. I generally don't have a problem with zoos that see to it that their animals are well fed and their living conditions are clean and adequate in size for their needs. San Antonio, San Deigo, LA - these are a few of the outstanding zoos that really do a good job, I think.

On the other hand, there are zoos that, when you walk into the monkey house and the stench knocks you to the ground - then I have a problem.

I don't know how many bleached-blonde tigers there are out there (outside of Detroit), but I bet they would all like to have the Mirage Hotel as their address. These cats are pampered to the extreme - not a care in the world, and probably better medical and dental coverage than any of us.

Life in the wild is no piece of cake, even for a tiger. It's very rare for an animal in the wild to die of old age.

Zoos do provide us with a place to see wildlife that most would never have a chance to experience. It's much easier to bring a tiger to Cleveland than to take Cleveland to Siberia to see the tiger.

[Nanner]

Originally posted by RockieBill
I dunno - I thought it was cool to see the Tigers finally win one! *groan*................
..................I don't know how many bleached-blonde tigers there are out there (outside of Detroit), but I bet they would all like to have the Mirage Hotel as their address. These cats are pampered to the extreme - not a care in the world, and probably better medical and dental coverage than any of us.



:D True, dat.

And, also about the animals in the wild that have a short life-span....... but that, as tough as it is, is the natural order of things.

I usually don't have as much of a problem with really well-kept zoos where animals are roaming free and the people are in caged walkways, and the animals are well taken care of, and it certainly does give people a chance to see something they'd never get a chance to see.

And now, I have this vision of Wilie in a whole big herd of deer, hand outstreched, deer saying, "Hey! Willie's here! Lunchtime!"

:D

...........
this relatively small head.

Obri...... don't forget....... I've seen the size of your head. And I know what size cap you wear.

:D

[PopTop]

Originally posted by Nanner
And now, I have this vision of Willie in a whole big herd of deer, hand outstreched, deer saying, "Hey! Willie's here! Lunchtime!" :D



Close, very close ... It's not a real big herd, seven regulars and a few occasional stragglers ... But a few of them don't seem to mind me standing close to them, one old doe I call Mamasita will even eat out of my hands ... There's another one that my bro-in-law named Nancy a couple of years ago before we moved in :eek:

I actually have to be careful when they start getting close to me ... They've got a hierarchy amongst their crowd and they can get a little pushy with each other, and potentially with me, if one of them thinks another is getting too much of the pie.

As for the longer-shorter life spans, the exception to that rule is the aquatic mammals; many of the whales have their "normal" life span cut in half swimming around in those huge tanks all the time.

[Nanner]

Originally posted by PopTop


As for the longer-shorter life spans, the exception to that rule is the aquatic mammals; many of the whales have their "normal" life span cut in half swimming around in those huge tanks all the time.

Which reminds me of another thing that gets my goat...... (in keeping with our wildlife/animals theme :D )..... those aquatic shows. :( Don't get me started! :angry: FREE WILLIE!!!

Really.

Oh. Which also reminds me. I wonder how Keiko is doing, now that they released him around his former family near Iceland. I should check. I think he has a website.

[Obri]

Originally posted by Nanner
Obri...... don't forget....... I've seen the size of your head. And I know what size cap you wear.

:D

True, and I know what age you are. We both stay quiet, how does that sound?:D

[Tigers#1]

Does anyone know what happened to the Tiger? Because this really bugs me! People take these wild animals out of their habitat, make a few bucks off them, deprive them of their freedoms, then kill them if they don't need them anymore, or if they attack. Which is what they are born to do. People just kill animals with out any thought at all except what's easier for their lives. Then people really have the nerve to ***** about subjects like abortion, because they feel filling is wrong. I'm sorry, but any live animal is more of a living being than any month old fetus, which don't even have full organs grown. And i'm saying that as a true Cathlic!

[Rockin Robin]

The tiger in Harlem is being transported to a wildlife preserve in Ohio. I don't remember what happened to Sigfried & Roy's tiger after he was sedated and removed from the premises.

[Nanner]

And I believe I heard S & R's tiger is in quarantine at the hotel......

..... okay, Obri. You keep quiet, and I'll keep quiet. :shh:

:D

[GaryMrMets]

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20031006040909990001

Updated: 03:36 PM EDT
Siegfried & Roy Show Canceled Indefinitely
Performers at Vegas Vigil Also Mourn Loss of Jobs
By ADAM GOLDMAN, AP

LAS VEGAS (Oct. 6) - Famed performer Roy Horn of the Siegfried & Roy duo remained in critical condition Monday after being mauled by a tiger, and the show has been canceled indefinitely, officials said.

About 200 fans and show employees stood outside the hospital at University Medical Center Sunday night, where Horn, 59, is being treated. He suffered a severe wound to his neck when the 7-year-old male tiger named Montecore attacked Friday night in front of hundreds of people. Officials said Sunday he had improved and could move his hands and feet.

With the show's future uncertain, about 267 employees are out of a job.

MGM Mirage officials said the show was "closed indefinitely.'' They added that even if Horn recovers, it's unclear whether he would ever be able to perform again in the rigorous show.

"We are not going to sugarcoat this,'' MGM Mirage spokesman Alan Feldman said.

Show employees were wondering if the company would pay out the rest of their contracts.

"We are worried about him, but we also basically lost our jobs,'' said 42-year-old Mary Bryan, a single mother who worked with the acrobats. "We gave this show our heart and soul. It's awful we have to think about money at a time like this.''

MGM Mirage officials have promised to help employees land new jobs.

Without the show, the fate of the tigers is also unknown. Montecore continues to be quarantined at the hotel, officials said.

Horn had never been injured during a show before, "not a scratch, not by an animal,'' said Bernie Yuman, the pair's longtime manager, who added none of the 63 exotic cats "have ever shown aggression on stage.''

Horn, along with longtime partner Siegfried Fischbacher, have been a staple on the Las Vegas Strip for years, performing their magic show to sold-out crowds at The Mirage since 1990.

The illusionists, who put on one of the most well-known and expensive Las Vegas shows with their signature white tigers and lions, signed a lifetime contract with the resort in 2001.

The German-born pair perform six shows a week, 44 weeks per year and have been onstage in Las Vegas for more than 35 years. They have done about 5,700 shows since coming The Mirage in 1990.

10/06/03 13:10 EDT

Copyright 2003 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/05/02/20031006082809990001
Hundreds of people chanted, "We love you Roy!" during a vigil outside University Medical Center in Las Vegas Sunday.

What should happen to the tiger that mauled Roy Horn?
It should be put to sleep so this never happens again
It should be given to a zoo or wildlife preserve
Nothing, the tiger was only reacting to its instincts
Other: (Discuss)

[GaryMrMets]

Here's the story about the tiger found living in a Manhattan apartment:

http://wcbsfm.com/watercooler/watercooler_story_278100231.html

Large Tiger Captured In Harlem

Tiger And Alligator Were Living In Fifth-Floor Apartment

Oct 5, 2003 9:54 am US/Eastern
NEW YORK (CBS) A Manhattan man faces charges of reckless endangerment after authorities removed a nearly 600-pound tiger and a 5-foot alligator from his apartment, officials said.

A team of animal control officers, police and Bronx Zoo employees removed the animals from Antoine Yates' fifth-floor apartment in the Drew Hamilton housing project in Harlem on Saturday, authorities said.

"He's huge," said Wes Artope, director of operations for the New York City Center for Animal Care and Control, referring to the tiger, an orange and white Siberian-Bengal mix.

Officers initially responded to a call on Wednesday that Yates, 31, had been bitten by a dog, police said. News reports said he was treated at an area hospital with bites to an arm and a leg and checked out on Friday.

Police said they received two anonymous calls saying that Yates had actually been bitten by a large wild animal. Residents told responding officers that they had seen the tiger, police said.

After establishing that there was a tiger in the apartment, authorities used a camera positioned from an outside window to monitor its movements before shooting the animals with tranquilizer darts.

"I was shocked, there was no question about it," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters. "Clearly, it was a major challenge."

Yates was taken into custody Saturday night at the University of Pennsylvania Hospital in Philadelphia, where he was being treated for his injuries, according to Sgt. John Grimpel, a police spokesman.

A message left for a nursing supervisor at the hospital was not immediately returned.

The animals were safely removed from the apartment and taken to a shelter in East Harlem. Artope said they would be transferred to an animal sanctuary in Nassau County and then Ohio.

(© 2003 CBS Worldwide Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report. )