WEAVER?!?!?????

[milky_way]

No HEREDIA?????!??? No WHITE?!???!!!??? :Pissed:

WTF Joe????!!!??????????? :Pissed:



TORRE and BOONE cost us this game :Pissed:. We had to win it in the 11th. Bases loaded, 1 out....DO ANYTHING BUT STRIKEOUT!!! :Pissed:


:Pissed: :hmm: :angry: :cry:

[rockin500]

i guess that makes up for the gift call from the umpire on Matsui earlier in the game.

besides, if you blame boone, you have to blame the guy after him for making the third out.

[rockin500]

ohhhh and heredia woulda been killed.

[metsfan001]

Well, that's an odd twist to Clemens' last game.

[PopTop]

Odd twists all over this postseason ... It was a great game like so many this postseason ... I'm just happy that those two bad calls 1B ump Bat Guano (Ed Rapuano) made earlier in the game didn't decide things ... He's the one who blows, not Weaver, and I can only imagine how bad/inconsistent he'll be if he's behind the plate in Game 5 like the umpire rotation suggests.

[Obri]

Pure lunacy bringing Weaver into this kind of situation.:angry:

And regardless of previous successes in these playoffs, Boone sucks!:Pissed: Get Wilson in at 3rd tonight.

Originally posted by PopTop
Bat Guano (Ed Rapuano)

:rotf:

What a crap call on Matsui.:cool:

[Yankee 21]

If we lose this series..:banghead :banghead :banghead

On the postgame they asked Joe why he brought him in the game..he sadi "If I can't use him in this situation, he shouldn't be in the rotation"
Well guess what Joe...we've said from the get go that he shouldn't be in the freakin rotation!!!!!!!:banghead :banghead

[rockin500]

who else coulda been used? I mean, you arent going to put mariano in in the 11th after taking out contreras.

who else was left in the pen who was capable of facing right handed batters? the answer: no one.

[Obri]

Originally posted by rockin500
who else coulda been used? I mean, you arent going to put mariano in in the 11th after taking out contreras.

who else was left in the pen who was capable of facing right handed batters? the answer: no one.

Ray, Weaver isn't capable of facing anyone. I'd have taken my chances with Hammond, Heredia or White ANY day.

[Yankee 21]

Exactly Dan...or leave Contreras in...he can pitch long..obvously something Joe didn't think about!!!

[rockin500]

i know youre upset with weaver, and i would be too. we had a coupla of those in our bullpen too who we wouldnt trust with an 8 run lead.

but here's the thing: if Torre puts in Heredia, heredia probably will not make it out of the 11th.

hammond, if he was on the roster would probably been done in the same way. marlins would CRUSH those lefties.

White, who knows. I dont think White could last the two or three innings that might be required.

His only other option other than Weaver woulda been mariano, and why would you want to burn him.

If he didnt have to pinchhit for Jose, Weaver wouldnt have been in.

[Yankee 21]

I wouldn't have pinch hit for Jose knowing that I might have to put "Nightmare Boy who loves to lose games by serving up HRs on a freakin Platter" In the Freakin World Series!!!!!
Ok, sorry..I am seriously pissed by this!

[Baseball Guru]

Why not use Rivera though??

Managers use their closers in extra innings all the time...

Rivera is good for 2 innings and you hope that your offense can get you at least 1 run in that case....
Again, maybe not the best option, but another option nonetheless....

Weaver is a major league pitcher that has had more rest than anyone else in that bullpen and he should have been able to face the bottom order of the Marlins order with no problem...

Gonzalez is only hitting .143 and that is after the HR he hit....

How long is Weaver under contract for?? I could look it up but I am lazy:D

[Yankee 21]

If not bring Mo in...why not let Contrares hit so he can stay in and pitch?????

I think Joe lost his freakin mind lastnight!!!!

I don't know how long his contract is..too lazy to look it up too..plus it makes me want to vomit looking at anything that involes him..but If they keep him and don't release him next year...I'll put a damn contract out on him:2guns: :2guns:

[rockin500]

torre was damned if he did, damned if he didnt. you absolutely NEVER let your pitcher hit in the extra innings of a postseason game unless you have NO ONE in your bullpen left. its just not done. Thats a Grady Little Offense.

Mo being brought in woulda been a mistake. yah, he's been lights out again, but how long can you continue to ride him? if you want to blame anyone, blame the offense there in the 11th. If they coulda capitalized, would we have been talking about this?

The fact is, torre made the RIGHT decision on this. weaver certainly didnt have any problem handling the more dangerous middle of the lineup....


by the way, Encarncion was on deck, so weaver had to throw that pitch to try to get gonzo out. unfortunately for him, it was nailed.

[PopTop]

I think if Torre thought Contreras was good for longer use, he'd have used him to start Game 1 ... He's got Contreras used to just an inning or so of relief now, I don't think it would have been wise to try to stretch him out ... I could see Rivera, but if you use him for 2 innings you may not have him for tonight ... Weaver pitched a good 11th and is perfectly capable of going 3-4-5 innings in relief ... Give Gonzales a little credit instead of pooping on Torre and Weaver so much.

How many of you have seen the movie Kelly's Heroes? You know the character that Donald Sutherland plays, tank commander name of Odd Ball ... Remember his famous line: There you go with the negativity again, Moriarity. You need positive waves, man. :cool:

[Yankee 21]

Sorry Willie,
I'll never have anything positive to say about Nightmare boy!!!

[Baseball Guru]

Mo being brought in woulda been a mistake. yah, he's been lights out again, but how long can you continue to ride him?

You ride him thru the World Series IMO...

He's your stud and you use him anyway necessary to try and win a game....

Again, I'm not saying thats what should have been done, just offering another point of view....

I personally would have left Weaver in there as well to face to bottom of the Marlins order.....


BTW, here is the structure for Weaver's contract:

Jeff Weaver RHP NYY Signed Jan 2002 - 4 years/$22M
2002: $2.4M
2003: $4.1M
2004: $6.25M
2005: $9.25M
-Possible $700,000 in bonuses during the contract

[PopTop]

I'd quote one of my own earlier posts if it didn't seem so silly to do that ... But I was obviously wrong about the Contreras/Torre thingy ... I don't get it after the move tonight ... I could understand Torre only letting him go 2 innings last night so he could have him for 1 inning, maybe the 7th tonight ahead of Mo Rivera who could work 2 innings this evening ... But after working him 2 frames on Wednesday and then bringing him in with limited warmup time in the 2nd inning tonight, I'm not sure what the heck Torre had in mind. :notme:

[milky_way]

I can't blame Joe for pinch hitting for Contreras. We NEEDED to score in the 11th. If Boone just GROUNDS OUT or hits the ball to the outfield, one run scores, Mo pitches the bottom of the 11th, and we win the game.

But no, Boone K's, the worst possible thing he could do other than GIDP or pop up. That at-bat lost us the game more than the homerun Weaver served up.



I can't understand the logic with using Weaver. One, Weaver didn't pitch in practically a month, and I believe the last pitch he threw prior to that was hit into the stands by Magglio Ordonez for a walk off, 3-run shot. Two, anyone, I repeat, ANYONE has a better chance at getting outs than Weaver. Torre never uses White or Hammond in important spots anyway, why not throw them in? Torre couldn't have imagined that he'd use both White and Heredia in Game 5, why couldn't he put in at least ONE of them before going to Weaver??!?

Weaver, IMO, should have been the ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT. He's been the WORST pitcher on the Yankees the entire year.

The only reason I can think of that Torre would put Weaver in would be to not blow the entire bullpen trying to win Game 4. He took a risky, risky gamble, and he lost.

[rockin500]

because he was going MATCHUPS. thats what you do in the world series. be it right or wrong, almost all managers do that.


righty righty matchup you know? that would explain weaver. and he certainly didnt have a problem in the 11th.

ground out wouldnt have done any good for boone. with that defense, it woulda been a DP, or the throw woulda gone home, depending on where it was.

what about flaherty? no blame for him?

and i dont see how using weaver is that of a gamble.

[Cyberlibrarian]

Far be it from me to be empathetic towards a member of the Evil Empire, but you guys are forgetting that Weaver looked GREAT in the 11th. But this is a "what have you done for me lately" time of year. :notme:

[Yankee 21]

No Julie, se what we know is that Nightmare likes to mess with your mind and go out and pitch one good inning and lull you into a spot where your thinking maybe he'll be OK and then the first batter he sees in the next inning, he serves up a HR..If I had a nickel for everytime he did that this season..I'd be sitting somewhere a hell of a lot warmer than Nasty Upstate NY where it snowed lastnight!

[Cyberlibrarian]

Good point!

But why is no one ready to crucify Rockette who, on 2 separate occasions, with 2 separate opportunities to shut the door on the opponent, failed?

[Yankee 21]

Probably cuz Rocket hasn't let us down as many times as Nightmare boy..atleast we know we have a chance when Rocket is pitching..when Nightmare is..we pretty much know the game is over!

[milky_way]

Ray, righty, lefties, they ALL kill Weaver.

Have you seen his numbers this year??? Have you seen him pitch this year??????!????!!!??? This isn't any ordinary righty, this is JEFF WEAVER. I held my breath whenever he pitched in the regular season praying that he wouldn't give up 5 runs before the 5th. To ask him to be PERFECT (which he would have had to be) is like asking for a miracle. I think I can count the number "good games" Weaver's pitched this year on my hand.


Weaver has done NOTHING good for the Yankees this year, save a few games.

Weaver hadn't pitched in weeks. He hadn't pitched halfway decent in MONTHS.

Yes Weaver looked great in the 11th, and that was a HUGE surprise to me, since I can't even REMEMBER when he last had a perfect inning. But I disagree with him being in the game at all. Yankee fans can attest, Weaver = loss. That's how its been almost all season.



I wasn't looking at the defense with Boone at the plate, so maybe you're right about the groundout. But still, he needed to come through in that spot. Of course Flaherty deserves some of the blame, but I find it hard to blame the backup catcher who hadn't played in weeks for not getting a hit when our thirdbaseman right before him couldn't even get a flyball.

As for not blaming Clemens, the non-existant offense lost that game more than Rocket. He pitched very well aside from that first inning.