Steinbrenner: Great injustice to Matsui

[Baseball Guru]

Bronx, NY (Sports Network) - New York Yankees owner George Steinbrenner is fuming over the voting motives of some writers that determined the winner of the American League Rookie of the Year Award. Steinbrenner is so upset that he issued a statement on Tuesday saying the voting was a "farce" and that "a great injustice has been done to Hideki Matsui."

Kansas City Royals shortstop Angel Berroa was named the AL Rookie of the Year on Monday, edging Matsui by the slimmest of margins since the 5-3-1 calculation system was adopted in 1980 by the Baseball Writers' Association of America. Berroa garnered 12 first-place votes for a total of 88 points. Matsui, the leftfielder for the Yankees, collected 10 first-place votes and 84 points.

The debate then resumed as to the qualifications of the Rookie of the Year. Major League Baseball has no age stipulation for the award. Berroa is 25 and Matsui is 29. Berroa had 35 games under his belt before this season. Matsui had 10 years of professional Japanese experience and was a three-time MVP of Japan's Central League.

Steinbrenner ripped into two writers who left Matsui off their ballot entirely and that likely cost the Yankee leftfielder a shot at winning the award, Bill Ballou of the Worcester Telegram & Gazette and Jim Souhan of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune. Steinbrenner called those writers "misguided."

"One of the writers in question, Mr. Ballou, actually said, 'while he (Matsui) is technically a rookie by the rules of Major League Baseball, he is not a rookie in the spirit of the award,'" Steinbrenner noted in his statement. "Spirit of the award? The award was renamed by the Baseball Writers' Association to honor Jackie Robinson, it's first recipient. Jackie Robinson came to the Major Leagues after playing in the Negro Leagues, a league whose high level of play is unquestioned. This year's voting farce, where the appropriate qualifications for the award were blatantly ignored, clearly demonstrates unfairness to first-year players from Japan. And that must be stopped."

A rookie in Major League Baseball is defined by a player who has accumulated 150 at-bats or 50 innings pitched. Also a player cannot spend more than 45 days on a team's active 25-man roster.

Matsui compiled a .287 batting average with 42 doubles, 16 home runs and 106 runs batted in. Berroa hit .287 with 17 home runs, 73 runs batted in, 92 runs and 21 stolen bases.

"While I have great respect for the Baseball Writers' Association of America and all of its' contributions to our national game throughout the years, I firmly believe that a great injustice has been done to Hideki Matsui," Steinbrenner said.

The debate over changing the rookie rules has been a hot topic in recent years. Kazuhiro Sasaki (2000) and Ichiro Suzuki (2001) were each named AL Rookie of the Year for the Mariners after playing in Japan. Hideo Nomo won the NL honor with the Dodgers in 1995 under similar circumstances.

Robinson was 28 when he started playing for the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1947. He played in 1945 for the Kansas City Monarchs in the Negro League. In 1994, the Rookie of the Year award was officially changed by Major League Baseball to the Jackie Robinson Award.

[I Are Baboon]

Once again, Steinbrenner farts and it makes the news. :hmm:

[Baseball Guru]

While I have no problem with Berroa beating Matsui as either player was good enough to win, IMO George has a point about the 2 reporters that left Matsui completely off the ballot....

"One of the writers in question, Mr. Ballou, actually said, 'while he (Matsui) is technically a rookie by the rules of Major League Baseball, he is not a rookie in the spirit of the award,'" Steinbrenner noted in his statement. "Spirit of the award? The award was renamed by the Baseball Writers' Association to honor Jackie Robinson, it's first recipient. Jackie Robinson came to the Major Leagues after playing in the Negro Leagues, a league whose high level of play is unquestioned. This year's voting farce, where the appropriate qualifications for the award were blatantly ignored, clearly demonstrates unfairness to first-year players from Japan. And that must be stopped."


Again, not to beat this topic up again as we have tackled this in the Around the Horn Forum but if a player meets the qualifications under the current rules of MLB, who in the hell are the writers to decide on whether or not a player is eligible or not a rookie in the "spirit of the award"?

[PissedPrincess]

What a hypocrite.:angry:

He completely sided with George King when King refused to vote Pedro MVP in 99, saying pitchers shouldn't be MVP.

But, it's one of his guys that got screwed so it's different.:hmm:

Screw Matsui too.

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by pedro's princess

He completely sided with George King when King refused to vote Pedro MVP in 99, saying pitchers shouldn't be MVP.
.


He who:umm

Ballou???

[I Are Baboon]

Alow me to offer a http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/images/smilies/nopity.gif to George.

[PissedPrincess]

Steinbrenner.

[PissedPrincess]

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
Alow me to offer a http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/images/smilies/nopity.gif to George.

[metsfan001]

Now what would George say if the Yanks had Berroa and Matsui was in KC? Guess...

[rockin500]

while i do think berroa deserved MVP over Matsui, he does raise a good point about the spirit of the award comment. under the rules, technically he is a rookie...

my opinion on japanese players being ROY is well known and i dont need to repeat it

just on stats alone, Berroa deserved the MVP.


the writers just shoulda said. "hey We voted for who we wanted to. too effin bad"

[PopTop]

Originally posted by Baseball Guru
"While I have great respect for the Baseball Writers' Association of America and all of its' contributions to our national game throughout the years, I firmly believe that a great injustice has been done to Hideki Matsui," Steinbrenner said.


Well, there's at least one aspect of this argument that I differ with Mr. Steinbrennr on, and that is I really have very little respect for the BBWAA as a group ... The NYY boss also needs to remember that one of his employees, a fellow by the name of Reggie Jackson, committed the same "offense" as the two writers in question ... It was Reggie who didn't even have the consideration to return his ballot for a HOF vote this past year (I think it was something to do with the Vet Committee vote, but I'm not certain).

I have no beef with the people like our own Rockin500, for example, who think that Berroa deserved the award on merit ... But to leave Matsui completely off your ballot of the top 3-4-5 rookies? Now that I do take some amount of umbrage with ... I'd sure like to see the ballots belonging to those two writers from the 2000-2001 seasons when Sasaki and Ichiro won the award.


STATS . . . MATSUI . . . BERROA
HITS. . . . .179 . . . . .163
AVERAGE . . .287 . . . . .287
ON BASE % . .353 . . . . .338
SLUGGING %. .435 . . . . .451
X-BASE HITS . 59 . . . . . 52
HOMERS. . . . 16 . . . . . 17
RBI . . . . .106 . . . . . 73
RUNS. . . . . 82 . . . . . 92
WALKS . . . . 63 . . . . .100
STRIKEOUTS. . 86 . . . . . 86
RUNS CREATE . 95 . . . . . 82
FIELD % . . .977 . . . . .968
AL FLD %. . .987 . . . . .971


NOTE: The "AL FLD %" is the American League averages for OF and SS respectively.

Ok the numbers are, at least in my mind, pretty darn even ... That alone should've dictated it would be a close vote regardless of any perceived "spirit of the rules" :hmm: And I mean no slighting to Cleveland's Jody Gerut or Tampa's Rocco Baldelli in leaving them off the list. these are just the two players most people list as their top AL ROYs.

Mr. Steinbrenner should not have said a damn thing about the overall vote being a "great injustice" ... But he certainly makes a valid point about the two writers who completely ignored the year Matsui had in 2003 ... I'm starting to think this has less to do with Matsui's experience in Japan and more to do with some folks just wanting to stick it to the Yankees and their owner. My $0.02.

[rockin500]

Originally posted by PopTop
I'd sure like to see the ballots belonging to those two writers from the 2000-2001 seasons when Sasaki and Ichiro won the award.




one of the guys, i think the boston guy, bill ballou, said he rotates year to year on voting. he didnt have the vote when ichiro and sasaki were up for their rookies of the year

[Yankee 21]

Originally posted by PopTop



STATS . . . MATSUI . . . BERROA
HITS. . . . .179 . . . . .163
AVERAGE . . .287 . . . . .287
ON BASE % . .353 . . . . .338
SLUGGING %. .435 . . . . .451
X-BASE HITS . 59 . . . . . 52
HOMERS. . . . 16 . . . . . 17
RBI . . . . .106 . . . . . 73
RUNS. . . . . 82 . . . . . 92
WALKS . . . . 63 . . . . .100
STRIKEOUTS. . 86 . . . . . 86
RUNS CREATE . 95 . . . . . 82
FIELD % . . .977 . . . . .968
AL FLD %. . .987 . . . . .971


NOTE: The "AL FLD %" is the American League averages for OF and SS respectively.

Ok the numbers are, at least in my mind, pretty darn even ... That alone should've dictated it would be a close vote regardless of any perceived "spirit of the rules" :hmm: And I mean no slighting to Cleveland's Jody Gerut or Tampa's Rocco Baldelli in leaving them off the list. these are just the two players most people list as their top AL ROYs.

Mr. Steinbrenner should not have said a damn thing about the overall vote being a "great injustice" ... But he certainly makes a valid point about the two writers who completely ignored the year Matsui had in 2003 ... I'm starting to think this has less to do with Matsui's experience in Japan and more to do with some folks just wanting to stick it to the Yankees and their owner. My $0.02.

By the looks of Willie's stats..Godzuki should have won...I guess nobody had a problem voting for Ichiro when he was named Rookie of there year

[Special_K19]

Steinbrenner's point is way off base, if I'm not mistaken, Berroa was left off of two ballots as well. King George needs to get his facts straight before *****ing. It's not like Berroa didn't deserve the award either.

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by rockin500
one of the guys, i think the boston guy, bill ballou, said he rotates year to year on voting. he didnt have the vote when ichiro and sasaki were up for their rookies of the year

If he rotates on a year to year basis then he should have had a vote on either Ichiro or Susaki as they won it back to back....

By the looks of Willie's stats..Godzuki should have won...

Willie didn't add the stolen bases to the mix as Berroa outstole Matsui 21-2....

Again, I personally would have voted for Matsui, but IMO the injustice is not that Berroa won over him but rather that he was left off of 2 ballots....And not just off 2 ballots for his performance but for other reasons....

Berroa became just the sixth Major League rookie since 1900 to hit at least .280 with at least 17 homers and at least 21 steals.

[rockin500]

Originally posted by Baseball Guru
If he rotates on a year to year basis then he should have had a vote on either Ichiro or Susaki as they won it back to back....




was ichiro 2001? and sasaki 2000? cuz if so, he says it was every 4 years he votes on AL ROY.....

so the last time would be 1999 he voted? he says he didnt consider either of them rookies then, and wouldnt consider Kaz a rookie if he came over next year either (if he were to vote)

he didnt consider contreras a rookie either.

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by rockin500
was ichiro 2001? and sasaki 2000? cuz if so, he says it was every 4 years he votes on AL ROY.....



Ah, ok...Didn't know how his rotation worked...

Thought it was every other year....:D

[PopTop]

Dang, left of the SB, thanks for picking that up Guru ... I also wasn't remembering the voting rotation that affects more than just the one guy R500 brought up ... And SpecialK brings up a point I didn't know, that being Berroa was left off a couple of ballots ... Therefore, I'm as guilty as that Steiny dude for speaking without full understanding :D

But there is a difference in the reasons that Berroa was left off and why Matsui was left off a couple of ballots ... Berroa was left off either because of ignorance or the fact that voter didn't think he was top 3 or so ... Matsui was left off because of both ignorance and a complete disregard for the rules.

I don't think the stats really suggest that either Matsui or Berroa was the hands down winner ... And when you start throwing in some of the other candidates who had solid rookie seasons, maybe neither of them deserved it ... What irks me is these are the BBWAA's rules and if they don't think they're good rules as a group, they should either change them or at least ensure their hand-picked voters will follow the rules ... This sort of reminds me of the 2000 Presidential Erections, er, Elections :eek: That should've been any democracy's finest hour, proof that every single frickin' vote counts! ... But it winds up leaving egg on the face of America, how it was bickered and fought over ... Same thing here, we should all be talking about what a close election it was for the eligible rookies, and saying positive things about Berroa for playing a solid SS with the resurgent Royals and Matsui for being the one consistent offensive force for the AL pennant winners.

Ok, I'll shutup now :cool:



EDIT: Note to self, you can't type very well when you've been drinking bourbon for Happy Hour!

[milky_way]

I agree with a lot of the points PopTop made....



I don't really care that Matsui didn't win it (the stats are really close, it could go either way), but I wish they'd just change the damn rule already :hmm:. Unless they change it this situation will keep presenting itself and there will keep on being controversy and blah blah blah....