new rumor on espnnews channel

[SlushyBOB]

The rumor is the Angels and Red Sox have a deal of Nomar for Jarrod Washburn, IF the A-Rod deal goes through. That would give you guys a rotation of Pedro, Schilling, Lowe, Washburn, and Wakefield...That is an awesome rotation if it goes through.

I have mixed feelings about it. I love getting Nomar, but I would only want to get rid of Washburn if we were for sure getting Colon. Without Washburn or Colon or rotation becomes a little iffy!

Hopefully we'll find out something in the next day or 2.

[I Are Baboon]

Is that a straight one-for-one deal? Washburn is a solid starter who can give us innings, but he is certainly not a player of Nomar's caliber. I would expect a 20 game winner if we're trading Nomar for a pitcher.

[redsoxman]

I Are Baboon,

I couldn't agree more!

What about Nomar for Jarrod Washburn and Brendan Donnelly? :D

[Hobosox]

ESPN.com reports that IF the A-Rod deal were to go down, there could be a possible Troy Glaus and/or Washburn trade for Nomar. That would be great because we'd have an even better rotation, a power slugger at third, and Mueller to play second (who would be a lot better than Adam Kennedy or any of the other names being tossed around for 2B). Then the only spot left to fill would be left field, and Theo is a genius, so that could get interesting.

imagine.....

CF Damon
2B Mueller
SS A-Rod
3B Glaus
DH Ortiz
1B Millar
RF Nixon
C Varitek
LF ???

SP Petey
SP Schilling
SP Lowe
SP Washburn
SP Wake

RP Timlin
RP Williamson
RP Foulke


ok ok, maybe i'm dreaming, but it's good to have dreams right? :D

c'mon Theo, make it happen!!

[Cyberlibrarian]

I heard Glaus too.

I like him a lot. He'd be a good addition to the Sox offense.

Which reminds me -- is Theo planning to keep Mueller, Millar and Ortiz?

[Hobosox]

Originally posted by LeiterFan

Which reminds me -- is Theo planning to keep Mueller, Millar and Ortiz?

HOPE SO! :D :Pray:

[SlushyBOB]

Glaus and Washburn for Nomar??? I wouldn't do that deal if I were the Angels. Nomar is a stud and I'd love to have him, but I think both of them would be 2 high a price to pay IMO.

[PissedPrincess]

Washburn for Nomah? NO WAY!!!!!!! Washburn isn't that good.

[SlushyBOB]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
Washburn for Nomah? NO WAY!!!!!!! Washburn isn't that good.


That's what the report said, but I agree I wouldn't do it of I were the Sox either. Maybe there will be prospects as well??? Not sure...This week could be very interesting for the Sox and the Angels though.

[PissedPrincess]

Originally posted by SlushyBOB
That's what the report said, but I agree I wouldn't do it of I were the Sox either. Maybe there will be prospects as well??? Not sure...This week could be very interesting for the Sox and the Angels though.


It sure will Slush. If you guys get Nomah, I'm gonna be real bummed.:cry: I'll really miss him.

[Baseball Guru]

Straight up I would not do it but throw in another player (not of Glaus value)

Not sure why some of you are not too high on Washburn:umm

I consider a very good pitcher that would be a great fit for the Sox..

JMO:)

[SlushyBOB]

Originally posted by Baseball Guru
Straight up I would not do it but throw in another player (not of Glaus value)

Not sure why some of you are not too high on Washburn:umm

I consider a very good pitcher that would be a great fit for the Sox..

JMO:)

I agree. Washburn will win 15-20 games which would be pretty nice considering he would be the 3-4-5 guy in the Red Sox rotation. Last year he was hurt the 1st part of the year, but the year before won I think 17 games.

[SlushyBOB]

forgot to add that he is also a lefty which the Sox do not have in their starting rotation!

[fenwayfaithful]

I would love to get Washburn; just not for Nomar.

[Hobosox]

Originally posted by SlushyBOB
I agree. Washburn will win 15-20 games which would be pretty nice considering he would be the 3-4-5 guy in the Red Sox rotation. Last year he was hurt the 1st part of the year, but the year before won I think 17 games.


id love to think this is true if Wash ends up in a Sox uni, but considering Schill, Petey, and Lowe are all 20-game winners, dont we have to lose somewhere? or are we going 120-42 next year??

:D

[Hobosox]

and by the way, the lefty thing is a HUGE plus, but i seriously only want him if we're getting Glaus too. Adam Kennedy? are you kidding me? id rather play Damian Jackson everyday at 2B if that were the case.

and Wake is a solid 4th starter, how badly do we need another?

[redsoxman]

I like the idea of going 120 - 42. I can live with that. :D

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by redsoxman
I like the idea of going 120 - 42. I can live with that. :D

You have not been on this website very long. The Sox could go 162-0 and win the World Series, and we'd still be *****ing and moaning about something. :)

[cxlx]

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
You have not been on this website very long. The Sox could go 162-0 and win the World Series, and we'd still be *****ing and moaning about something. :)

Agreed!!! We'll b!tch about A Rod going 5-6 when he could have gone 6-6 in the deciding game of the WS. :D

[Fragmentsofme]

Originally posted by BoSox5945
are we going 120-42 next year??

:D

Sounds good to me:cool:

[PissedPrincess]

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
You have not been on this website very long. The Sox could go 162-0 and win the World Series, and we'd still be *****ing and moaning about something. :)

Of course we would. Bit ching is part of being a Sox fan, in fact, it's the biggest part. :cool:

[SlushyBOB]

Originally posted by BoSox5945
and by the way, the lefty thing is a HUGE plus, but i seriously only want him if we're getting Glaus too. Adam Kennedy? are you kidding me? id rather play Damian Jackson everyday at 2B if that were the case.

and Wake is a solid 4th starter, how badly do we need another?


I really doubt the Angels would give up Glaus and Washburn. Glaus is a young HR hitting 3B who has superstar potential. Kennedy's not bad, but granted his not Glaus either. As much as I'd like to see Nomar in an Angels uniform, I wouldn't want to see it if Glaus and Washburn were going to leave.

[Blue56]

not nomar for washburn and/or glaus!!!!

I also heard he may be traded to los angeles for O.Perez and some prospects, and then they would trade perez to another team for someone, :notme:

[Blue56]

Nomar is a better player than a-rod!!!!!!!

[Fragmentsofme]

Originally posted by Blue56
Nomar is a better player than a-rod!!!!!!!

Since when?

[redsoxman]

Forget about A-Rod. Re-sign Nomar, Pedro, Trot, Jason, and Derek Lowe. They'll all be eligible for free agency after the 2004 season.

[rockin500]

how bout this? you can have both Arod and Nomar you can shift Nomar out to left field ALA Robin Yount. itd require a lot of financial wrangling, but constructive payroll management could make it work. :cool:

[redsoxman]

Or just move Nomar to second and put Damian Jackson in left field.

[barzilla]

There is no way it would be Washburn and Glaus. Bavasi should lose his job if he made that trade. I think the Sox should do a Washburn and Kennedy trade and it would make some sense for the Angels because they could move Eckstein to second.

Kennedy is a high OBP guy that Epstein and James like, so it makes sense. Damian Jackson shouldn't get any playing time whatsoever on any team that has title aspirations. Trust me, Kennedy is better than you think.

[barzilla]

Okay, a little stat comparison to help you compare the three players involved in the second base discussion (Todd Walker, Damian Jackson, and Adam Kennedy). Todd Walker looks to be on his way out, so unless the Sox move Mueller and sign a third baseman (or call up Youkilis) then Jackson would cover that slot.

. . . . . . . . . OBP. . . SLG. . . .OBIP. . . .BB/SO
Walker. . . .333. . . .428. . . .478. . . . .48/54
Jackson. . . 294. . . .323. . . .356. . . . ...8/28
Kennedy. . 344. . . .399. . . .474. . . . .45/73

Now, let's analyze these numbers. If Walker walks then it becomes a straight comparison between Kennedy and Jackson. I hope no one really needs to me to go into depth. But, for sake of discussion, let's compare him with Walker. Kennedy has two distinct advantages:

1. Even if we take these numbers at face value we would have to say that Walker and Kennedy are virtually equal. However, Kennedy is CHEAPER so it would meet the Sox's desire to cut payroll with a Garciaparra deal. Plus, with the plugging in of Kennedy you have virtually the same offense except for left field (albeit with a better shortstop).

2. Princess still needs to have her meeting with Bill James, but the Oakland As consider OBP to be three times as important as SLG. I wonder if James feels the same way because that is a Paul Lepodesta creation. At any rate, Kennedy gives them about ten additional points in that all important OBP. So, in some circles, Kennedy would actually be considered a better player.

Personally, I would do that deal in a heart beat. You have four frontline starters in the rotation and a better or equal team at every position except left field. Epstein can find a cheap left fielder (Reggie Sanders, Rondell White, Jose Cruz Jr, Juan Gonzalez) in his sleep. Then, the extra money paid to Arod won't hurt until you have to give Pedro is extension.

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by barzilla
Personally, I would do that deal in a heart beat.

Nomar for Washburn and Kennedy? Hell yes!!!!!

[PissedPrincess]

The Sox won 97 games last year, because they led the AL in OBP AND SLUGGING.

And, I am not at all convinced Washburn and Kennedy could handle the pressure here. I think they would choke. The Sox said they have ZERO interest in Glaus, because they feel he's too laid back to play well here.

[Fragmentsofme]

If Petey stays healthy and Curt does what he always does, then it won't matter that we don't have the hightest OBP and SLG% in the league. 2 of the best pitchers in the game, and the best player in the game on our team. A very solid rotation 1-4, and a pretty good lineup. Look at it that way.

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
The Sox won 97 games last year, because they led the AL in OBP AND SLUGGING.

Exactly. But the pitching staff is better now, so we don't need a record-setting offense to get to the post season.

[SlushyBOB]

Good analysis Barzilla. I would agree. I think Washburn and Kennedy for Nomar would be decent.

[PissedPrincess]

Originally posted by Fragmentsofme
If Petey stays healthy and Curt does what he always does, then it won't matter that we don't have the hightest OBP and SLG% in the league. 2 of the best pitchers in the game, and the best player in the game on our team. A very solid rotation 1-4, and a pretty good lineup. Look at it that way.

I'm trying. I really am.

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
I'm trying. I really am.

Well last year you were screaming about getting rid of Nomar, now that we're on the verge of sending him elsewhere you are changing your mind. Really, I don't get it. We've added Curt Schilling, and we are about to basically exchange Manny and Nomar for A-Rod, a solid pitcher, and a solid infielder, yet you seem to think we're headed downhill.

I'm not being mean or anything Jacqui, but work with me here. :D We've been sceaming about dumping Manny and it's about to become a reality. Red Sox Nation should be enthusiastic and excited about what's going on. The Sox are in such good hands with Theo and his posse. :cool:

<---- Trying hard to cheer up Princess

[PissedPrincess]

I guess I'm just angry. Angry that to dump Manny, we must move Nomah. Yeah, I wanted Nomah's head about a gillion times last year, but I'm gonna miss him.:cry:

The SIZE of Arod's contract scares me. Could he handle it here? Remember, we all pined for Manny at one time.

I hope it works, really. Maybe I'm not over Game 7 yet.:(

[Fragmentsofme]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
I hope it works, really. Maybe I'm not over Game 7 yet.:(

I don't think any of us are, but I believe the Sox are putting themselves in a position that when they do get back to game 7, this time they win!

[PissedPrincess]

Originally posted by Fragmentsofme
I don't think any of us are, but I believe the Sox are putting themselves in a position that when they do get back to game 7, this time they win!

I hope you're right. Maybe its PMS.:notme:

I've just had my heart stomped on so many times.......:cry:

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
I guess I'm just angry. Angry that to dump Manny, we must move Nomah. Yeah, I wanted Nomah's head about a gillion times last year, but I'm gonna miss him.:cry:

The SIZE of Arod's contract scares me. Could he handle it here? Remember, we all pined for Manny at one time.

I hope it works, really. Maybe I'm not over Game 7 yet.:(

I guess I am excited because Theo, Larry, and John are going all out and being very aggressive in what they are doing, yet they are being practical at the same time.

We will never be over game 7. Never.

[barzilla]

Honestly I think the Sox are better off with that trade. A number of things have been brought up:

1) Can Washburn and Kennedy handle the pressure?

I think they can because they won't be the main show in town. All of the attention will be focused on Arod, Schilling, and Francona. They can blend in the background like David Ortiz, Kevin Millar, and Bill Mueller.

2) Can Arod handle the pressure?

Please?! He just had three of the best years of his life while being the poster child for huge baseball contracts. There have even been some that have suggested that he actually earned that contract. He was THE man in Texas with a lesser lineup. Now, he'll have Mueller, Ortiz, Millar, Varitek, Damon, and Nixon to support him.

As far as the Nomar situation is concerned, I feel just as badly for him as anyone else, but he put himself in this mess when he refused an extension. He could have locked himself into Boston for another five seasons but turned down the opportunity. Why? Did he think he would get twenty million a season or did he really want out? I don't know, but Arod is better than Nomar. No one can deny that fact. When you get rid of a player on his way out and a player with a bad contract then it is worth getting someone like Arod (contract and all).

Personally, I don't want to hear any Sox fans bellyaching. You got the best starting pitcher available on the free agent or trade market, the best position player in all of baseball, and perhaps the second best closer available in the free agent/trade market.

[Hobosox]

good post 'Zilla.

However, the Sox don't want Washburn, so it looks like he won't have to worry about the pressure. I think A-Rod and Schill (and Foulke :pray:) is good enough for me

[PissedPrincess]

I have heard Seattle may now be a player for Nomah.

[metsfan001]

:eek:

[PissedPrincess]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
I have heard Seattle may now be a player for Nomah.

Oh for Christ's sake, I got Ducky and his bride on my mind.:D

I meant LA is a player.

[metsfan001]

:evillol :evillol :evillol :evillol :evillol :evillol

[Fragmentsofme]

Straight up for K. Brown? He's got a hefty contract as well.

[barzilla]

I don't know that I would do that one. I going to have to go with Fragments on the contract plus he has been struggling with his health the last few years. You might call me crazy, but I might consider two or three lesser players rather than one big one. There are few teams that are in the market for someone like Nomar (Seattle, LA, Anaheim) and with the recent comments you almost have to make these things work. Trade him for two solid big league players and a top notch prospect. You save more money that way and plug more holes.

For instance:

Anaheim: Adam Kennedy, Ramon Ortiz, and a prospect

LA: Odalis Perez, Paul Lo Duca (can work out trade with Oakland)

Seattle: Rafeal Soriano, Two top prospects

Obviously, some of these deals don't look as apetizing as others, but you get the idea. Pull of page from the Mariner playbook. Use the financial savings you have from the deal to acquire the players you couldn't bring in the deal.

For instance, if you pulled the trade with the Mariners then the Mariners would move Carlos Guillen to third. They would be estactic with the trade. You don't pull as much on the big league level, but you do get another top notch relief pitcher and prospects to replenish your system. More importantly, you save nearly 9 million dollars after the deal is made.

Some of that may go into paying for Arod, but let's say you can spend 4-5 million of that. You go out and buy yourself either a top notch second baseman (Alomar?), middle of the road third baseman and move Mueller to second, or a solid corner outfielder. Suddenly, the trade is not simply a trade of Nomar for Soriano and prospects, but a trade of Nomar for Soriano, another good major league position player, and prospects. What it comes down to is that you have to swallow your pride long enough to make the deal and then get even with free agency.

[Fragmentsofme]

I like the Soriano trade, we need a closer, and he looks to be good. Now, can we get it past the penny-pinching owner of the M's?

[PissedPrincess]

I can't stand this crap anymore. GET IT DONE ALREADY!

We can't get on with our lives.:angry: