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[barzilla]

I just wanted to make sure that you didn't feel the need to thank us for taking Pettitte away from the Yankees. However, if you are in the appreciative mood I would like to put forth the following trade proposal for everyone in the Sox forum (Princess and I already mulled this one over)

RF-CF Richard Hidalgo

for

CF Johnny Damon

Now, I have one stipulation: both teams have to pick up the full contracts of the players they are getting. Let me make my sales pitch:

Why Boston should want to do this

Richard Hidalgo is earning more in 2004 than Damon (14 million versus 8 million) but you get more bang for your buck. In Fenway, Hidalgo should slug between 500 and 600. He typically gets on base at about a .350-.360 clip. In other words, you're looking at .900 OPS guy. Damon couldn't do that in his dreams. Hidalgo can play center, but he is better suited in right with his 21 outfield assists (led ML outfielders by the way). Hidalgo could ideally take one of the corner spots for Ramirez and allow the Sox to find a centerfielder (decent ones are cheaper).

Now, as far as the contract is concerned, Hidalgo has one year with an option (1 million buyout I believe) which gives more flexibility in 2005 if the Sox wanted to use Hidalgo's money to re-sign Pedro or any other player they have.

Why Houston should want to do this

Six million dollars.

Seriously, this deal gives Houston temporary payroll relief with a productive centerfielder in return. Biggio was below average last season (fielding percentage really does lie) in centerfield and his range will only get worse with age. Move him to left field and down in the order. Except for his stint in Oakland, Damon has been a .350 OBP guy with speed. For those non-sabermetric types, he has scored more than 100 runs in the last five seasons.

Think about it, let me know, and if you can forward this to Bill, Theo, or Larry I think we can get something done.

[baseballfever]

Yes the Yanks seemed to lost out to both Pettitte and Colon. Should be a good season up ahead baby!! =)

[PissedPrincess]

Done Zilla. Fax me the paperwork.:cool:

[PissedPrincess]

Am I the only one ECSTATIC that the Yanks lost Andy?

Check their rotation.

Moose
Contreras
Weaver
Wells?
Lieber?
Vasquez

Colon is gone. If they want to pay 39 yr old Kevin Brown, God Bless.

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
Am I the only one ECSTATIC that the Yanks lost Andy?


No. That is a MAJOR blow to the Yankees. Kevin Brown is good and he fills the void, but he is certianly no Andy Pettitte. It'll be interesting to see how Brown does against the AL at this point in his career. :)

[Fragmentsofme]

I'm afraid George is going to go out and do something stupid, like trade every single kid in their minors for Kerry Wood and Mark Prior. I'll get excited when the season starts and their rotation still looks like that.

[I Are Baboon]

Let's not forget, kids, the loss of Pettitte does not mean the Yankees are going to fall apart. Last I checked, he's the only player they have lost.

[Fragmentsofme]

Clemens and Nick Johnson as well

[I Are Baboon]

Ooh! I forgot about Clemens. Eh, he was never any good anyway. ;)

[Astro Annie]

I hear they're trying to trade Weaver to LA for Brown.

[PissedPrincess]

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
Let's not forget, kids, the loss of Pettitte does not mean the Yankees are going to fall apart. Last I checked, he's the only player they have lost.

Check again my little friend. They lost Roger, Andy, Nick Johnson, and half their minor leagues.
:clap2:

[Fragmentsofme]

Originally posted by Astro Annie
I hear they're trying to trade Weaver to LA for Brown.

Weaver, a no name, and $$$ for Brown is what I've heard.

[PissedPrincess]

They can have his always-injured, over-paid, 39 yr old ass.

[Fragmentsofme]

I'd rather they keep Nightmare:D

[metsfan001]

:D

[barzilla]

Okay, I've altered my trade proposal. Here goes:


Red Sox get

RF-CF Richard Hidalgo
INF Geoff Blum
SP Tim Redding

A little on the two additions:

Geoff Blum- Blum gives you a quality utility infielder that can play all four infield positions well with an OPS in the 700 range. (just slightly better than Damian Jackson)

Tim Redding- This one really hurts me, but I'm taking a calculated risk that we will get Clemens OR Carlos Hernandez will be ready. Redding had a 3.69 ERA last year despite going only 10-14. Looks like a really good starting pitcher.

Astros Get

CF Johnny Damon
RP Scott Williamson

You guys just got your closer and Williamson is the least portable between him and Kim. Kim can easily move the rotation or can easily serve the Red Sox well in the multiple inning 6th-7th-8th variety. Damon gives us the speedy centerfielder/leadoff man we need and Williamson would likely setup Dotel or could move into the closer's role.

[PissedPrincess]

Have some more-->:PPsmilie:

You're giving us half the talent for twice the cost. I may be blonde, but I'm not an idiot.:cool:

[barzilla]

Half the talent? Wow, you were willing to do a Hidalgo for Damon deal straight up. Basically then you are getting a top notch utility infielder and a very good looking starting pitcher (who had a better ERA+ than Andy Pettitte I might add) for Scott Williamson. I didn't know that you were blonde, but that has little to do with this. I didn't know a good young starting pitcher and a top notch utility infielder couldn't fetch someone that wasn't deemed good enough to be your closer in 2004.:umm

[PissedPrincess]

Theo is insane. I like Williamson, I'm not giving him up.

You're asking me to take waay too much money.

[barzilla]

Jacqui,

It's a moot point now that Blum has been dealt to the Devil Rays. Incidentally, don't you love those folks in Tampa? The Yankees add Sheff, Brown, and Vazquez. The Red Sox add Schilling, Foulke, and perhaps Arod. The Blue Jays add Hentgen, Batista, and Lilly to their rotation. The Orioles will add probably either Javy Lopez or Ivan Rodriguez, perhaps Miguel Tejeda, and maybe even Vladdy Guerrero. For the Devil Rays troubles? They add Tino Martinez, Carl Everett, Mark Hendrickson, and Geoff Blum. Good luck winning 60 games in that division.

As far as Hidalgo is concerned, I know that Boston is one of the three teams that had expressed some interest (Mets and Mariners being the others). In all seriousness, I expect Hidalgo to be a replacement for Manny if he gets dealt to Texas. Personally, I see Arod being dealt to Boston for Manny. Nomar being dealt to LA for Odalis Perez and prospects. At that point, the Red Sox can go ahead and offer the Astros either Johnny Damon or Scott Williamson. I'm sure Houston would be willing to pick up the two million buy out at the very least and maybe as much as five million (if Williamson is the primary).

[PissedPrincess]

There was a great story in the Boston Herald today that said quit while you're ahead Theo. I tend to agree. I don't see a reason to get Arod.

I agree, Baltimore and Toronto have quietly improved dramatically. Tampa is screwed.

[barzilla]

Well, I agree with that point to a certain extent. I certainly think this club could compete for a World Series very easily as it is currently constituted. However, I don't think any GM should ever "rest on their laurels". The question is how you go about improving your team. I think the 2003 version of Theo did a brilliant job of picking up guys below the radar screen (Ortiz, Millar, Mueller, Timlin) that really had a huge impact on who the Red Sox were last year.

I think the biggest lesson from Moneyball for Theo was how Beane struggles to keep his emotions in check. It would be easy for anyone in Theo's shoes to look at a 80-100 million dollar payroll and try to match the Yankees in the headlines. Clearly, history shows that the biggest impact players for the Red Sox in 2003 were the guys who barely made the sports briefs. I think if he continues to keep that focus (maybe acquire a solid starter for Williamson for example) he will do a whole lot better.

[Hobosox]

if all the aforementioned stuff goes down, i.e. A-Rod, Manny, Nomar, Perez, etc....., i wouldn't mind seeing Williamson traded to Houston for Hidalgo. And Perez I am assuming would be traded for a second baseman, who I would WISH, but probably won't be, Jose Vidro. If all of these Domino's fell, I could see it like this:

Damon
Vidro
A-Rod
Ortiz
Hidalgo
Millar
Nixon
Mueller
Varitek

or, if we dont get Vidro, stick Mueller in the 2 spot and our 2B in the 8th.

Rotation & Pen would be:

Petey, Schill, Lowe, Wake, Kim... with Arroyo, Timlin, Embree, Foulke


.........however, since Nomar is still my #1 guy, and I trust the genius that is Theo Epstein I would have to think that:

Nomar+Manny+Walker > A-Rod+Hidalgo+(2Bx)

((if that X is Vidro, it may be equal, if not, i like what we have now. why mess with a good thing??))


THEO: IF IT AINT BROKE, DONT FIX IT :no

[baseballfever]

But do we really need a-rod? We did fine last year with manny and nomar. (on field) I just dont understand getting a-rod, someone who could screw up the great chemistry with have, or DID have last year. We should be spending all the money we have on a 2nd basemen...

[barzilla]

Well, let's remove Arod from the situation to make this easier.

Miguel Tejeda just signed for twelve million a season, so Nomar's market has just been solidified. He turned down fifteen million a season last year and Tejeda's contract removes any possibility that the Sox can talk him into a hometown discount. Besides, Jeter is getting 18 million a season and every acknowledges that Nomar is better than him.

Under these circumstances, most teams would consider dealing a player like Nomar before the season to get something for him. So, evaluate that trade on its merits. The Manny for Arod deal is a separate deal. Would you make that trade? That is the question you have to ask yourselves.

[PissedPrincess]

But it isn't AROD for Manny Zilla. You have to look at it as Nomah AND Manny for AROD.

I'm with baseball fever dude.

[barzilla]

So the Rangers are getting Nomar and Manny? I didn't think so.

Would the Red Sox trade Nomar without this whole Arod situation? Some would say yes since he won't return in 2005 under any circumstances. If that is the case then the trade isn't Nomar and Manny for Arod because NOMAR WOULD HAVE BEEN TRADED REGARDLESS OF THIS OTHER SITUATION.

Now, the Red Sox may have killed the slight chance of re-signing Nomar with the flirtation for Arod, but Epstein isn't about to offer Nomar eighteen million a season, so he would have been gone anyway. Get something for him while you can.

[PissedPrincess]

If it weren't for this AROD crap, Nomah would have re-signed IMO.

:sigh: I'll have to wait and see how this plays out. My understanding is AROD is a clubhouse cancer.

[I Are Baboon]

IMO, Nomar would have been traded anyway. He is asking AT LEAST what Tejada got, and the Sox will not pay Nomar a minimum of $15 million per season, which is what he is asking. Chasing A-Rod while Nomar was still on the active roster was certainly a bad PR move, but either way it does not change the fact that Nomar was going to get traded, no matter what was going to happen with Manny.

[rockin500]

i agree, babs. Nomar wasnt going to stick around, and if he started actually asking for 17-18 million a year, i'd be like dont let the door hit you on the ass.

especially after the tejada deal. that sealed nomar's fate.

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by rockin500
i agree, babs. Nomar wasnt going to stick around, and if he started actually asking for 17-18 million a year, i'd be like dont let the door hit you on the ass.

especially after the tejada deal. that sealed nomar's fate.

Don't get me wrong...I like Nomar and have said all along it'd be nice to find a way to get him to stay. However, Nomar is not worth $18 million a year in today's market. And after that Tejada deal, it's been reported that Theo pretty much decided at that point there'd be no way to sign Nomar.

[PissedPrincess]

This whole deal SUCKS. We are losing Nomah for NOTHING. We are getting NOTHING in return.

Horrendous baseball decision.:angry:

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
This whole deal SUCKS. We are losing Nomah for NOTHING. We are getting NOTHING in return.

Horrendous baseball decision.:angry:

Would you calm down! :D We have no idea what Theo is going to do with the freed up Nomar salary money. Whatever we get for Nomar, I don't count on that being the Nomar replacement. I think Theo will take the money and look elsewhere. There are a lot of rumors flying around out there. I've heard Jim Edmonds name mentioned. Who knows what will happen, but the A-Rod/Manny trade is going to trigger other trades as well.

[PissedPrincess]

WHAT FREED UP MONEY? We spent it on Curt and Foulke!

There is no money. Now I'm hearing this deal may take weeks to finalize?

I can't take it. I can't.:angry:

:wavey2:

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
WHAT FREED UP MONEY?

Ehhh....I dunno. :notme:


:D


Yeah, I want all this to just be over already. I read on one of those Boston news sites that EVERYONE involved wants this thing wrapped up by Christmas.

[PissedPrincess]

Xmas?! I'm NOT EFFING WAITING TILL XMAS!

:Puter:

I'm calling Theo. I've had it. I mean, wtf? Do I buy the nephews AROD shirts or not?:notme:

Do they know how this decision affects my daily life?:angry:

[rockin500]

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
Would you calm down! :D We have no idea what Theo is going to do with the freed up Nomar salary money. Whatever we get for Nomar, I don't count on that being the Nomar replacement. I think Theo will take the money and look elsewhere. There are a lot of rumors flying around out there. I've heard Jim Edmonds name mentioned. Who knows what will happen, but the A-Rod/Manny trade is going to trigger other trades as well.

it being over with would be good. just make up their minds.

if you can get Jim Edmonds, well now. Jim Edmonds + Arod > Man Ram + Nomar

[cxlx]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
Xmas?! I'm NOT EFFING WAITING TILL XMAS!

:Puter:

I'm calling Theo. I've had it. I mean, wtf? Do I buy the nephews AROD shirts or not?:notme:

Do they know how this decision affects my daily life?:angry:

HAHAHAHA!!!!!

:rotf:

Get them a Schilling shirt. :D For now that is. ;)

[barzilla]

Wow Princess, you talk about being unappreciative.

The two biggest concerns for the Sox coming into the offseason was the closer and boning up the rotation. Theo does that and finds a way to get rid of Manny. Besides, you don't know what Theo will get for Nomar. What if it's another solid starting pitcher?

[PissedPrincess]

The Sox are getting pitching for Nomah, they then have to ship it to Texas for AROD. That's the deal.

Underappreciative? I pay the highest ticket prices, sit in the smallest seats, pay the highest cable prices, highest parking costs, and for all that I get 1918.

I have been an OBSESSIVE fan for 36 years. I've earned the right to vent.

[cxlx]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
The Sox are getting pitching for Nomah, they then have to ship it to Texas for AROD. That's the deal.

Underappreciative? I pay the highest ticket prices, sit in the smallest seats, pay the highest cable prices, highest parking costs, and for all that I get 1918.

I have been an OBSESSIVE fan for 36 years. I've earned the right to vent.

:bolt:

[I Are Baboon]

Originally posted by pedro's princess
Underappreciative? I pay the highest ticket prices, sit in the smallest seats, pay the highest cable prices, highest parking costs, and for all that I get 1918.

At least you can buy a program outside the park for only two bucks. :)

[PissedPrincess]

Originally posted by I Are Baboon
At least you can buy a program outside the park for only two bucks. :)

You can bet your ass they'll be $5 this year.:cry: