Bye Andy

[Yankee 21]

Pettitte agrees to three-year deal with Astros
December 11, 2003

New York (AP) — Andy Pettitte decided to pitch at home, agreeing Thursday to a three-year contract with the Houston Astros and bolt the New York Yankees.

Pettitte made the decision after weighing a new offer from the Yankees on Wednesday night, a baseball source said on the condition of anonymity.

The Yankees’ offer averaged about $13 million a year, while the Astros’ proposal averaged about $13 million.

Houston planned to announce the deal at a news conference Thursday. Pettitte’s decision to sign with Houston was first reported by Newsday on its Web site.

Pettitte, 31, is 149-78 with the Yankees, who signed him in 1991. If he had stayed in New York, he would have had the chance to surpass Whitey Ford’s 236 victories and become the winningest left-hander in Yankees history.

With the Astros, he joins a team trying to rebuild and win at the same time. Houston dealt closer Billy Wagner to Philadelphia last month in a cost-cutting move. Pettitte would combine with Wade Miller and Roy Oswalt to form a powerful front three in the rotation.

While Houston has had many strong teams since joining the National League for the 1962 season, the Astros have never made it to the World Series.

Without Pettitte, the Yankees are left with a rotation that includes Mike Mussina, Jose Contreras and Javier Vazquez, acquired from Montreal last week. Candidates for the back end of the rotation include Jeff Weaver, Jon Leiber and David Wells, who is close to agreement on a minor league contract.

New York also could delve into the free-agent market, where Kevin Millwood is available. Or the Yankees could attempt to trade for a starter — New York held some talks with Los Angeles about a deal for Kevin Brown, but the Dodgers wanted a major hitter in return.



Good Luck Andy...hope your Happy in Houston..you will be well missed!!!

[Baseball Guru]

Yanks really dropped the ball on this one as it seems...

They really took him for granted IMO.....

They worried so much about Sheffield and even signed Wells before even negotiating a contract with Pettitte....

Houston on the other hand definitely made him feel wanted....

So wanted in fact that Pettitte was offered like 7 or 8 milllion more at the last minute and it wasnt enough to keep him there....

I know the article says that the Dodgers want a heavy hitter in return for Brown but I am hearing that they may do a 1 for 1 involving Weaver:eek:

Why, unless they are just trying to kill salary, would they want to do this:umm

[Yankee 21]

As a Christmas present to me???? Hell, we lost Andy..don't make me go through another season with Nightmare..my nerves couldn't take it!!!

[metsfan001]

They should send him down to AAA. No, really.

[Cyberlibrarian]

Merry Christmas Kel.

Weaver's gone.

But...


the flip side is that you get Kevin Brown. A 39-year-old malcontent who is on the DL almost constantly.



Here's (http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-brown1212,0,1516748.story?coll=ny-sports-span-headlines) the story.

[Yankee 21]

Originally posted by LeiterFan
Merry Christmas Kel.

Weaver's gone.




.



Here's (http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-brown1212,0,1516748.story?coll=ny-sports-span-headlines) the story.

:dancin: :clap: :jump: :Party: :hi5: :banana: :rolling

Yes Yankee fans..There is a Santa Claus!!!!!

[milky_way]

Originally posted by Baseball Guru
Yanks really dropped the ball on this one as it seems...

They really took him for granted IMO.....

They worried so much about Sheffield and even signed Wells before even negotiating a contract with Pettitte....

Houston on the other hand definitely made him feel wanted....

So wanted in fact that Pettitte was offered like 7 or 8 milllion more at the last minute and it wasnt enough to keep him there....

I can't blame the Yanks for this. If Andy signed w/ Houston because the Yankees didn't court him enough then he just cut off his nose to spite his face. He wanted to go to Houston from the beginning, and I think him signing a contract for less money and less years proves that. I think the only way he would have agreed to stay in NY was if the Yanks gave him an insane contract, which he asked for. JMO.


THANK YOU ANDY for everything! You will be missed :(

[WestsideHimself]

know Pettitte has always had the Yanks' bats behind him, but he's the only pitcher in the past 100 years to win at least 12 games for the first nine years of his career. He's a proven postseason winner, and given the money that George has been willing to pay for Steve Karsay or Sterling Hitchcock, it seems mind-boggling to me that he let Andy go over a couple of million and an extra year, which qualifies as meal money in the Bronx... and they're replacing a 31-yr-old 200-innings horse with Kevin Brown, who can be great when on but has had back, elbow, groin, neck, Achilles tendon, finger and abdominal muscle injuries over the last few years and will be 39 by Opening Day - and who'll be making more that Pettite would have taken. I'm ecstatic, but truly, truly puzzled... I'm saying it here and nopw - the Yankee run is over. The Sox will win the division next year for the first time since 95!

[milky_way]

Originally posted by WestsideHimself
... I'm saying it here and nopw - the Yankee run is over.
If the Yanks' run ends because they lost a pitcher with a 4+ ERA, then was it really a run at all?

The Yankees will be fine. They still need to make moves to catch up with Boston, but they will survive.

And let's see how Andy's "consistent winner" argument holds up in Houston, where he won't be getting absurd run support every night.

[Cyberlibrarian]

Andy might have "absurd run support," but his career ERA is lower than that of Javier Vasquez.

Besides, you don't accumulate a record of 148-78 (or something like that) solely on the basis of run support. You have to be pretty damned good too.

[Baseball Guru]

This is the jist of the trade: The Yankees and Dodgers agreed to the outline of a trade that would send Brown to the Yankees for right-hander Jeff Weaver, two minor leaguers and $3 million, two baseball officials said on condition of anonymity.



I actually heard yet another rumor involving the White Sox...

Yanks send Weaver to Chicago, Chicago sends Frank Thomas to LA and LA sends Brown to the Yanks...

[milky_way]

Originally posted by LeiterFan
Andy might have "absurd run support," but his career ERA is lower than that of Javier Vasquez.

Besides, you don't accumulate a record of 148-78 (or something like that) solely on the basis of run support. You have to be pretty damned good too.
Javier Vazquez is younger, and his career ERA doesn't accurately reflect the pitcher he is today.

Vazquez's Stats:
1998: 6.06 ERA 116 ER 172.1 IP 196 H 32 GS
1999: 5.00 ERA 86 ER 154.2 IP 154 H 26 GS
2000: 4.05 ERA 98 ER 217.2 IP 247 H 33 GS
2001: 3.42 ERA 85 ER 223.2 IP 197 H 32 GS
2002: 3.91 ERA 100 ER 230.1 IP 243 H 34 GS
2003: 3.24 ERA 83 ER 230.2 IP 198 H 34 GS

If you look at the past 4 years Vazquez has been the better pitcher. And Vazquez is younger too.

Of course Andy's W-L record isn't solely the result of run support, but it helps a lot.

A very interesting stat: from 2000-2003; Quality Start = 6 IP, 3 runs or fewer
Andy Pettitte: 67 Quality Starts--Won 68 Games
Javier Vazquez: 83 Quality Starts--Won 50 Games

[Cyberlibrarian]

What makes Petttitte's ERA even more impressive is the fact that he's pitched in the AL. If Vasquez has over 4.00 in the NL, who knows what'll happen in the AL.

And your quality starts stat bolsters my position, not your own. ;)

[milky_way]

Originally posted by LeiterFan
What makes Petttitte's ERA even more impressive is the fact that he's pitched in the AL. If Vasquez has over 4.00 in the NL, who knows what'll happen in the AL.

And your quality starts stat bolsters my position, not your own. ;)
Enlighten me here...how exactly does it bolster your position? :umm

Vazquez had 16 MORE quality starts than Pettitte. Andy won 1 more game than he had quality starts, which further proves my point that run support has greatly influenced Pettitte's W-L record.

I agree that Andy should be helped by facing a pitcher every time through the lineup, but there are positives and negatives in Andy switching leagues. Yankee Stadium is a great park for a lefty pitcher. Minute Maid Park...not so much. In the NL Andy will be playing in more hitter-friendly parks. Then again, the infield defense will be better in Houston, which is important since Pettitte is a groundball pitcher.

And Vazquez's ERA hasn't been over 4.00 since 2000.

[WestsideHimself]

Guru I heard that Frank thomas thing also eh, Shitty deal for the White Sox IMO. Better not happen! With this Andy dandy deal though the value of the Sox' acquisition of Curt Schilling goes up ten-fold... and the Gary Sheffield deal is falling apart, which means the Yanks will have to backup their dumptruck-full-of-cash and drop it on Vlad Guerrerro, he of the bad back and the swing like he's on PCP... an accident waiting to happen. And while I don't like seeing Nomar go if it comes to that, getting A-Rod as a replacement would make up for a lot of that. If you want to be cold-blooded about it, Alex is 2 years younger and just getting into his prime at age 28 .

[WestsideHimself]

This has been an exciting offseason so far!

[Yankee 21]

Well, Andy said on the press conference that he's been leaning torward Houston for weeks so I don't think anything that the Yankees would have offered would have mattered anyhow.
Yankees run over cuz Andy's gone???? Don't think so, I've said it before and I'll say it again...One Player does not make a team.

[Baseball Guru]

Originally posted by Yankee 21
Don't think so, I've said it before and I'll say it again...One Player does not make a team.


That is true but remember, we are just talking about 1 player here as you have to add Clemens and his 17 wins and you now have minus 38 wins from starters....

I'm not sure that any team had 2 starters equal that amount of wins and to lose them both will hurt....

[Yankee 21]

Yeah, but we have Moose and two new pitchers that aren't too shabby..plus if Conteraras ( I'm never gonna be able to spell his name right) has grown since last year..that's a plus...so we'll just have to see!

[milky_way]

Originally posted by Yankee 21
Conteraras ( I'm never gonna be able to spell his name right)
HAHA, don't worry, it took me a while to learn his name too :D.

As I said on the other thread, I think that if the Brown trade goes through and if there are no serious injuries (a big IF), the 2004 rotation could be BETTER than the 2003 rotation.

Clemens will be replaced with Brown. Brown posted a better ERA than Clemens last year in only 0.2 IP less than Rocket.

Mussina will still be here.

Pettitte will be replaced with Vazquez. Vazquez posted a better ERA than Pettitte last year in 22.1 more IP than Andy.

Wells's spot will be taken over by Contreras. Contreras looked sick at the end of last season. Excluding his Boston implosion he gave up 6 ER in 6 starts, with an ERA of 1.34 over that span. I think that if he's healthy, he's gonna have a breakout year in 2004. I definitely think he'll be as good as Boomer was this past season, and there's a good chance he'll be better.

Contreras/Weaver tandem will be replaced with the Lieber/Wells tandem. Lieber and Wells, if healthy, I think will do better than Weaver did (that won't take much).

JMO

[Yankee 21]

I was just telling Bobby lastnight that now the bat is taken out of Brown's hands..Welcome to the land of the DH, that that could help keep him healthy too..with a Healthy brown we're in pretty darn good shape!