Roger Clemens

[Durango53]

This guy is just sick. Man what he is doing is fun to watch. Hell the way he is pitching it looks like he could go a few more years. There is no way that he should have retired when he can pitch like this. I think we will see two more years of the Rocket because I think he is having a blast pitching in the NL and at home. I never have been to much of a Roger fan but it is fun to watch him in the NL. Great move for the Astros to get him!!!

[treasurecoast1]

What are the chances of Clemens winning 400 games? I think he could have a statistical chance to do this, though it would be a longshot.

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What are the chances of Clemens winning 400 games? I think he could have a statistical chance to do this, though it would be a longshot.

I think the longshot part of your statement will be among the finalists for Understatement of 2004. I'd say it was a just short of a longshot that he will come back for a 2nd year with the Astros, but certainly can't see him pitching a 3rd season. If he can make 68 starts the next two years for Houston, and win every single one, he's still be 22 shy of 400.

It's been strange for me to watch him in an Astros uniform. Clemens was on my "bad list" when he was in college since we Texas Aggies just never find anything good coming out of that little college in Austin ;) But I've got to say -- in fact I did say this in my last Astros Daily article -- this Aggie's had no trouble urging Clemens the Longhorn on.

[Panzram]

He did only sign a one year contract, right? But if he pitches this way all year the Astros should try everything in their power to get him for another year.

[barzilla]

Clemens never said that he would only pitch one season, but in terms of his career we have to remember a couple of things:

* Millions of Americans retire even when they are still very good at what they do. If Clemens wins 25 games this year and still retires I will be thankful that I got a chance to see him pitch. (I've actually seen him as a Blue Jay of all things too)

* Even though he is living at home he is still missing out on some of his sons' activities. I'm not sure how long he will be able to put up with that.

* Clemens is beginning to be discussed as the best pitcher in baseball history. Considering the changes in the game (relief pitchers, five man rotations) he doesn't NEED to get to 400 wins to be mentioned in the same breath as Walter Johnson, Christy Mathewson, Cy Young, or Lefty Grove. I don't know how often Clemens considers anything remotely close to this, but all players have a strong desire to finish on top. If Clemens even comes close to duplicating this pace (let's say he wins 15-18 more games with a 3.00 ERA the rest of the way) he should get strong consideration for the Cy Young. Could you imagine being at the pinnacle of your profession when you leave? I can't imagine anything better.

[treasurecoast1]

:

* Millions of Americans retire even when they are still very good at what they do.



But, of course, hundreds of ballplayers stay on well past the point where they resemble their prime self.

[645]

He sure is one of the greats.

400 Win? he need 86 more and to do that he would have to play another 5 years atless and I would think he would want to keep playing that long. So I would have to say that is out of the question.

[H Town Fanatic]

Clemens truly is amazing. I didnt expect him to do as good as he has been doing so far. Im just glad we got him this year and I would like if he came back again next year to kill the Cubs.

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Been a year since this thread was last touched, and thought it appropriate to bump since Clemens will be facing the Cubs and Greg Maddux in his next start.

He really has been amazing to watch the last year-plus in a Houston jersey.

[Teddy Ballgame]

- I saw Clemens several times in 1997 and 98 when he was about the only reason to bother attending a Blue Jays game and he won the CY Young award back to back after the Red Sox traded him to Toronto on the premiss that he was washed up.

- I remember seeing him against the Jays in August of 1996 when he was not pitching the way he used to pitch and there was early talk that they would unload him and that he might join the Jays. When I saw him doing his squats and other workout routines in the outfield before that game and then saw him win the game despite not having his best stuff and even strike out the side in the fourth or fifth inning on guile rather than heat, I knew he was a must for the Jays and that he had plenty left for a few years. But I never imagined that he'd win another four Cy Youngs including the two consecutive ones with Toronto. (And if Paul Beeston hadn't reneged on his commitment to build a new championship team with the Jays, Rocket would have stayed with Toronto for a few more years instead of going to the Yankees.)

- Clemens has one of the very best win-loss percentages in history, unlike the other Texas flame thrower Nolan Ryan, and in my opinion is arguably the best starting pitcher in history and certainly the one in the modern era that most managers would want on the mound in a gut check game. With 330 wins, he is probably going to stop after this year at 345-350 victories. However, in today's business oriented baseball culture with the astronomical salaries and pressure conducive to early retirements and with the tendency of managers to start their big guns every fifth day instead of every fourth or even third day and to take them out for a stopper at the least sign of trouble, I would not be surprised if he and Greg Maddox turn out to the the last 300 game winners in baseball history.

- So I will certainly watch a match up with the two last 300 game winners if I can find it on the tube. I'll have to check the Chicago superchannel tomorrow.

[Astro Annie]

It will be on FSSW in the Houston area and on WGN anywhere that carries it.

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ESPN Classic is airing Rocket's 20-K game on 29 April 1986 right now. Interesting to note that he entered the game with just 19 strikeouts on the season, then more than doubled that over 9 innings.

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Strange to find out that Roger Clemens has never thrown a no-no during any point of his baseball career.


Alyson Footer / MLB.com (http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050430&content_id=1033992&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou)
Good genes: Koby Clemens, the oldest of Roger Clemens' four sons, one-upped his dad on Friday, when he threw his second straight no-hitter for his Memorial High School baseball team.

Koby Clemens no-hit the team from Spring Woods, which just so happens to be where his dad went to high school. Koby threw five no-hit innings in a 10-0 win, a game shortened by the "mercy" rule. At the plate, Koby was 1-for-1 with a sacrifice fly and a walk.

Reminded that his dad logged two hits during his start against the Cubs on Friday, Koby conceded that Roger had bragging rights in that category.

"Technically, he went 2-for-2, so he got me on that one," Koby said. "But I came home and gave him a little grief about throwing against his high school."

For all that the Rocket has accomplished in his career, he has never thrown a no-hitter, at any level. Koby already has three -- two this year and one during his sophomore season.

Asked if a no-hitter would make his career complete, Roger, a seven-time Cy Young Award winner who "retired" for a little more than two months in 2003, shook his head 'No.'

"My career was complete about three years ago, I thought," he said.

More accolades: Clemens was honored on the field during a pregame ceremony on Saturday for receiving the Satchel Paige National League Pitcher of the Year Legacy Award from the Negro Leagues Baseball Museum in Kansas City, Mo. last year.

The Legacy Awards were established by the NLBM to honor Major League Baseball's best with awards given in the name and spirit of Negro Leagues legends. In the American League, Minnesota's Johan Santana was named Pitcher of the Year.

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Interesting, if only from a historic standpoint regarding Clemens' and the team's run of 1-0, extra-inning losses earlier this season.

Clemens sees zeros in his sleep, on scoreboard
Neil Hohlfeld / Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/3181880)
HOUSTON 14 MAY -- Several times during this season of silent bats, Roger Clemens has said he has gone through stretches like this in his career. You could look it up, he said.

Well, the folks at Elias Sports Bureau looked and looked and looked before finding the last time a pitcher made three consecutive starts where the score was 0-0 after nine innings. Clemens did it from April 13-23 this season, and the Astros subsequently lost all three games 1-0 in extra innings.

It turns out that every 95 years, something like this happens. According to Elias, Doc Scanlan made three starts for the Brooklyn Superbas from July 30 through Aug. 13, 1910 that were 0-0 after nine innings. Brooklyn lost all three games in extra innings.

Clemens will make his eighth start of the season tonight against San Francisco. He is 2-1 with a 1.10 ERA, a number that brings to mind the 1.12 mark Bob Gibson posted for the 1968 St. Louis Cardinals. For the record, Gibson was 22-9.

In Clemens' seven starts, the Astros have scored 11 runs, averaging 1.6 runs per game. Clemens, who is hitting .357, drove in two of those runs in a 3-2 victory over Cincinnati on April 8. His only other win was 2-1 over Florida on Monday.

A year ago, everything Clemens touched turned to gold at the start of the season. In seven starts, he was 7-0 with a sparkling 1.99 ERA. But he benefited from 47 runs, an average of 6.7 per game.

There are several factors for this season's lack of run support, one being the absence of outfielder Lance Berkman, who started the season on the disabled list and has played in only one game Clemens has pitched. A year ago, he hit .520 with three homers and nine RBIs in Clemens' first seven starts.

Then again, it isn't as if the Astros are knocking down the fences for other pitchers.

The Astros have been shut out six times and rank last in the National League in batting average, hits, home runs and slugging percentage. Still, they have averaged 4.2 runs in the 28 games not started by Clemens.

Andy Pettitte, Clemens' teammate with the New York Yankees from 1999-2003 and the past two years in Houston, thinks there's another reason for Clemens' lack of support.

"I faced Roger when I first came up, and there's no doubt that you get a little more pumped," Pettitte said. "You know who you're facing and you know that you're not going to get a whole lot of run support that night, so you maybe turn it up a notch yourself."

The last time an Astros pitcher went through something like this was in 1987, when Nolan Ryan led the majors with 270 strikeouts and tied for the ERA title at 2.76. But Ryan's record was 8-16, and he endured an eight-game losing streak in which the club scored a total of 13 runs, getting one run four times and no runs once.

"I remember that after a while, there were a few times when Nolan would get a little uptight in the dugout when we weren't scoring," said former Astros catcher Alan Ashby. "You try so hard because you don't want to waste another great outing, but it almost becomes counterproductive."

Once during the stretch of non-support, teammate Danny Darwin walked behind Ryan's locker while the pitcher was doing an interview and said loudly: "Quit your complaining. Go out and pitch a shutout and hit a home run next time." :eek:

Words to the wise, whether in 1910, 1987 or 2005.

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Boy, this is some crap if I've ever read any! There's a helluva' lot of difference between the extra weight Clemens put on and how Bonds' body has changed. I guess the fact Nolan Ryan got wider at the hips and in the shoulders as his career (and age!) progressed, and the fact he was still chunkin' 99 MPH and throwing no-no's into his 40s makes him a candidate for being a steroids abuser?! Nope, this guy points to a few misleading stats to defend Ryan somewhat. But then, go back and check Ryan's K/IP ratio in some of those late seasons. He didn't have 300 K's because he wasn't pitching nearly as many innings! And to top it off, he tries to drag Randy Johnson into the mess?!

Wishing bad things upon this butthole :loser:

In sharp contrast to Bonds, Clemens avoids scrutiny
Steve Shitzit / Pittsburgh Rumor-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05135/504781.stm)
A strong body of evidence is slowly emerging that points to what so many have long believed: Barry Bonds is a steroid abuser.

Virtually no one is surprised because Bonds long has been under such suspicion. After all, he went from being a Hall-of-Fame caliber player to an all-time great, whose hitting prowess matched and often surpassed the likes of Babe Ruth and Ted Williams. Baseball fans and the media were skeptical of such accomplishments. It was believed such prodigious feats could not be achieved without chemical assistance.

No question, Bonds' deeds have been staggering.

In 2001, he hit 73 home runs to break Roger Maris' record, which had stood for 40 years. That same season, he had an .863 slugging percentage, which broke Ruth's record that had stood for 80 years.

In 2002, he had an on-base percentage of .582, which broke Williams' record that had stood for 60 years.

He had won three MVP awards, two with the Pirates, by the time he was 29. When he added what would be the first of four more when he was 37, doubts increased.

No one was that good.

Of course, it was more than the majesty of Bonds' achievements that raised suspicion. The size of his body also screamed steroids use. Where he was once a sleek greyhound, he now bulged with muscles. He had gained at least 40 pounds. Although there was not an iota of concrete evidence and was not against the rules of baseball at the time, Bonds was widely believed to be a cheater.

It all made sense, even to those -- including this column -- that had long defended Bonds.

So why aren't people saying the same thing about Roger Clemens? Why hasn't this bulked-up, overperforming baseball senior citizen received the same treatment as Bonds?

For sure, his accomplishments are equally astounding. In fact, the case could be made that the trajectory of Clemens' career should arouse more suspicion than Bonds'.

Unlike Bonds, whose career never faltered, Clemens had a four-year period, beginning when he was 30, when many people believed he was in decline. Included in that group were the Boston Red Sox, the team he played for during the first 13 years of his career. After the 1997 season, the Red Sox did not re-sign Clemens, who was eligible for free agency. It seemed like the right move.

After going 152-72 in his first nine seasons, Clemens was 40-39 from 1993-96. What's more, his winning percentage twice was below that of his team during that four-year stretch, something that had never happened in the previous nine seasons.

Also during the span, Clemens' earned run average twice was over 4.00, a level where it had never been before. It was a clear picture of a player in decline. And why not? He was 34 when he finished the 1996 season with a 10-13 record on a team that was eight games over .500.

Except that he wasn't in decline. Not even close.

He signed with the Toronto Blue Jays in 1997 and, on a team that was 10 games under .500, he was 21-7. It was the first time he had won 20 games since 1990. His ERA of 2.05 was the second lowest of his career. Once again, he was Superman. And, of course, it was all due to his incredible workout routine. There was never a word about chemical enhancement.

It's not like Clemens was some kind of media favorite. Like Bonds, he has a history of being a major jerk. Clemens is 42 and pitching as well or better than ever. Last year, he was 18-4 with the Houston Astros -- the third-best winning percentage of his career. He won his seventh Cy Young Award -- 18 seasons after he won his first.

Going into his scheduled start against the San Francisco Giants last night, he was averaging better than a strikeout an inning and his ERA was a ridiculous 1.10.

In his tell-all book, "Juiced; Wild Times, Rampant 'Roids, Smash Hits, and How Baseball Got Big," Jose Canseco wrote: "I've never seen Roger Clemens do steroids, and he never told me that he did. But we've talked about what steroids could do for you, in which combinations."

He also said Clemens showed "classic signs" of steroid use.

Clemens' agent, Randy Hendricks was furious. "He has passed all tests and will continue to do so in 2005."

The same tests Bonds passed.

There's never a word about Randy Johnson, who is 41, and steroids, but he might be the greatest overproducing baseball senior of them all. Bonds had offensive numbers that sometimes surpassed the great hitting masters. Johnson has strikeout totals that obliterate the performance of Nolan Ryan, the greatest strikeout pitcher of all time.

From ages 34 to 40 -- seven seasons -- Johnson had more than 300 strikeouts five times. He had 290 once. When Ryan was between 34 and 40, he had no 300-strikeout seasons and only three 200-strikeout seasons. Next to Johnson, Ryan is a junkballer.

But Johnson, too, is widely believed to be clean.

None of the above is to suggest I think Clemens and Johnson are steroid abusers.

Of course, I didn't think Bonds was either.

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Rocket only getting better
Future Hall of Famer may be the greatest right-hander ever
Mike Bauman / MLB.com (http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article_perspectives.jsp?ymd=20050515&content_id=1050293&vkey=perspectives&fext=.jsp)
HOUSTON -- It is by now a truly special occasion whenever Roger Clemens pitches -- like an inauguration, a coronation or a new episode of "Deadwood."

It is big and it is getting bigger. This is a man whose Hall of Fame credentials were established some time ago. But now into the mix of existing greatness is added the element of astounding pitching longevity.

Saturday night at Minute Maid Park, Clemens was as good as ever, which is to say, better than almost anybody else. He worked eight innings in the Astros' 4-1 victory over the San Francisco Giants, striking out 10, giving up one run on just five hits, walking no one. Both the innings and the strikeouts were season highs for Clemens. But it's not as though this one performance was anything far outside his normal 42-year-old range.

The way Roger Clemens has pitched this season, by any reasonable standard, he could be, would be, should be, 8-0. His ERA is 1.11. That's seven earned runs over eight starts. It is not his fault that his Houston colleagues with the bats have been shut out three times while he was pitching.

He has been going so well that after giving up one run in eight innings on Saturday, his ERA climbed from 1.10. And after going 1-for-3 at the plate, his batting average dropped from .357 to .353.

"I had a meeting with the pitching coach and the hitting coach," Astros manager Phil Garner said, feigning seriousness. "Rocket's ERA went up and his batting average went down. I'm very upset."

At some point, the numbers yield to amazement about what Clemens has done, is still doing and apparently will continue to do for as long as he feels like it. At this point, the mere schedule of probable starting pitchers for the Astros is enough to determine when next you can find yourself in the presence of greatness. Now, the question is just how far up the pitching pantheon he could be placed.

"You do feel mighty good when the Rocket's on the mound," Garner said. "There's no question in my mind that for the last two decades, you'd have to call him the greatest right-hander in the game. And he might he the greatest right-hander in the game, period. How do I know what Cy Young was like, or Grover Cleveland Alexander? This guy's been pretty impressive for 22 years.

"Yeah, it feels damn good to have him on the mound -- and at the plate. I'll tell you what, the start before last, we had two situations, and rather than bunt, I put a hit-and-run on, and he hit the ball down the line on one of them and he hit the ball on the other one."

Right. On top of everything else, Clemens is hitting. 353. Could it be that he was being underutilized for all those seasons in the American League?

"Well, I don't know about that," Clemens said with a chuckle. "You just get up there and get lucky, that's all you can do. I appreciate the skipper sometimes putting the hit-and-run on. Kind of gives you a little bit of a challenge when you're standing up there."

Ah, that hitting is a serious bonus, but that's not what gets him mentioned in the same breath as Walter Johnson. Or what makes him look like he can pitch as long as Satchel Paige.

"He's a complete pitcher, still," said Giants manager Felipe Alou. "I couldn't believe he was retiring last year. It looks like he could pitch another four or five years."

Clemens is an attraction, and justifiably so. Clemens' start on Saturday night drew a capacity crowd of 41,323. The Astros have had four sellouts this season: Opening Day was one of them, two of the others were Clemens starts.

The only question here, after back-to-back homers revived the Astros and gave Clemens the lead in the sixth, was whether Clemens might complete his first game since 2003. Clemens was pitching so efficiently, so superbly that, with a 4-1 lead, the issue was out of doubt.

"I talked to him about it," Garner said. "He was laboring a little bit, but I thought he had a little left in the tank. If it was something he really wanted, I probably would have let him go back out there."

But the Astros wanted to give closer Brad Lidge, just getting back to full strength after a mild case of pneumonia, the chance for the save. And Clemens, given a lead, wasn't about to pace himself.

"I just tried to empty the tank late, in the eighth inning," Clemens said. "My body's not feeling that great. I'm looking forward to when I can really get my legs back, when I can do my running and things like that.

"You have to be really mentally prepared the way things have been happening. So you don't want to leave it on the street out here or in the weight room. You want to save it for out there on the mound. That's what we're trying to do."

The question was raised for the sake of clarity. Apart from the fact that Clemens needed to conserve energy to pitch the necessary gems, why was his body not at its best?

Clemens paused for just a beat and then answered: "It might be just a matter of being 42 years old."

Well, there is the proof: This is a mortal man. But after 331 victories, a guy ought to be able to acknowledge that he is not in his post-adolescence any more.

Even with age 43 approaching, every fifth day this man is a legend, a tourist attraction, a special event. Roger Clemens is taking greatness into another decade, and it is something to see.

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Funny how the rumors only seem to get bigger from the NY media as the Yankees heat up. Lupica is in the same class as Justice and Lopez, arrogant little pukes who let their own biases interfere with their real jobs.

Need to pitch for Clemens? It's same old story
Mike Lupica / NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/310595p-265721c.html)
It is the distinctive beat of the Yankee season, the kind of drumbeat you start to hear now, in the distance, for Roger Clemens.

The Astros, who are paying Clemens $18 million, are struggling. The Yankees, even after spending nearly $120 million to get Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright are still worried about pitching, even as hot as they have been lately. Already this seems to shape up as a match made in mergers-and-acquisitions heaven.

Last year the Astros were supposed to be completely out of things as late as August, then came on the way they did and nearly made the World Series. Nobody expects them to do it again. So if they really are gone this time, you will start to hear that it is practically a moral imperative that Clemens return to the Yankees and compete for another Series, as if the planets will fall from the heavens if it turns out he is out of contention for the first time since he forced his way out of Toronto and into pinstripes in the first place.

Again: If Clemens does decide he wants to come back, you can book on the fact that his family really will be solidly behind him. Even though family is what brought him to the Astros in the first place.

And even the possibility of this happening makes you laugh, it is all such a crock.

None of this will stop the drumbeaters, all those in and out of the media who cheer the Yankees on every time they try to buy the one thing in sports that is impossible to buy, no matter how hard the Yankees try:

A mortal-lock sure thing.

For now, the Yankees don't say a word about this. The Astros? First Drayton McLane, the team's owner, said Clemens wasn't going anywhere. Now everybody there seems to be backing off from that, ruling out nothing. Clemens, of course, is already on the record with ESPN as saying the only team to which he would agree to be traded is the Yankees.

Oh, and by the way, there is supposedly some kind of "agreement" between Clemens and McLane that if he does want to have one last hurrah in New York, maybe something can be arranged.

That is how Clemens got out of Toronto, remember. He had a handshake deal with Paul Beeston, running the Blue Jays in those days, that if the Blue Jays were no longer a contender, he could go pitch for somebody who was. It is probably one of those crazy coincidences you get in life sometimes that the somebody turned out to be the Yankees, who were willing to do with Clemens what they have done with just about everybody on their roster, which means give him more money than he could get anywhere else.

The fact is, Clemens was moving toward the door the minute Randy Johnson signed his original deal with the Diamondbacks. Maybe it is the force of destiny that will bring the two of them together by the end of the baseball summer.

"(Clemens') charisma, his character, his credibility is all going to take this franchise to a new level," then-Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker said when he signed Clemens.

The credibility part, and all the other things Clemens said about getting a chance, before he retired, to play for his hometown team, will be kind of a fun subject to kick around if Clemens, the power pitcher, finesses his way back to Yankee Stadium.

Say everybody involved does want this to happen in July. What do the Yankees give up to get a guy who is the best pitcher in the sport right now, even at the age of 42? What do they have that Houston wants? Do they give up Robinson Cano, perhaps the first middle infielder produced by their farm system since Derek Jeter? Do they trade Chien-Ming Wang, who has a chance to be the first starter they have developed since Pettitte was a kid? Just when their farm system seems to have produced at least snapshots of an actual future, do the Yankees trade it away?

There is a reason why the last couple of weeks have been so exciting. A lot of good things have happened to produce all those wins in a row. But so much of the affection for this team is built around players like Tino Martinez and Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter and Mo Rivera and Jorge Posada. Old friends.

And there is the surprise of seeing both Cano and Wang step up the way they have. For once, for this brief moment in time, there has been no rush to bring somebody in from the outside. Instead, they have fixed the season from the inside. It doesn't always have to be an All-Star. It can be a kid at second, a kid starter, a role player like Tony Womack going to left.

Sometimes role players make the team a real team.

You know the two trade-deadline moves that helped turn everything around for the Red Sox last summer? Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz. And Mientkiewicz didn't even play every day. This while the Yankees were obsessing about Randy Johnson. But that is the way the Yankees usually think. Most of the time, it is the height of their creativity:

Who's the biggest name? Who costs the most?

Get him.

This time the biggest name out there could be Clemens. Stay tuned. It will be interesting to see if the Yankees look to stack the deck again. And give away young for old. Everybody knows how well that's worked out for them over the last four years, at least in the end.

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Guess the NY Daily News doesn't have enough Yankee-bashing to do right now with the pinstripers winning, so they decided to devote two columns to some contrived story :hmm: I like that "free fall" line as well; guess they've missed our mini winning streak and the 24 innings of shutout ball our pitchers have put up. Only place these rumors are soaring is in the minds of the mental midgets that make up a majority of the NYC sports media.

Rocket rumors soar
Return to Bronx possible with Astros in free fall
Anthony McCarron / NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/310573p-265720c.html)
It is a scene that stirs hearts from the corridors of power at the Stadium to the Barcalounger of any Yankee fan, to perhaps, Roger Clemens' sprawl in a Houston suburb: The Rocket, back in pinstripes, riding to the Yankees' rescue like some flame-throwing cowboy.

But how possible is a reunion between one of baseball's all-time greats and its most famous team? Depends on who's talking.

The struggling Astros say they are not shopping their ace, but their owner did not rule it out. Clemens recently said, "I'm not going anywhere now, I know that for sure," but he didn't invoke his no-trade clause or slam the door, either. Some rival baseball executives believe Houston will deal Clemens for future help if it continues to stumble, especially if the Astros find a rich contender willing to rent him for half a season.

The Yankees, meanwhile, watch with interest, but no public comment. Privately, they wonder if Clemens has a handshake deal with Houston owner Drayton McLane that would trigger a trade to the Yankees if Clemens wanted out. And what it would take to bring Clemens back.

"This," said a National League executive, "is going to be something to watch."

Right now, according to McLane and his general manager, Tim Purpura, there is nothing to see. One of the worst teams in the National League, the Astros have gotten off to a terrible start, but both men stressed in recent telephone interviews that Clemens was not being shopped.

Purpura apologized for the vehemence of his answer. "I hope you don't think I'm being rude, but Roger is not on the market and that's where it stands," he said. "We're trying to get our ship righted here. What Roger has communicated to me and what his agents have communicated to me is that it's a non-issue. We have to move on here. We have to get ourselves going."

"Trading him has never been a consideration," added McLane. "There has not been one discussion about trading Roger. So the Yankees need to look elsewhere for another pitcher."

But the owner also admitted, "You look at every situation. If there's any reason, you'd consider it. We traded Richard Hidalgo last season because he wanted to leave Houston and he had a contract."

Asked if he had a handshake deal with Clemens to trade him to the Yankees if the season went sour, McLane said: "No more than you have with any other player. It's no different than with any other player."

Clemens, 42, said he would retire after the 2003 season, but decided to sign with his hometown Astros after Andy Pettitte did. Clemens won his seventh Cy Young award last season, then hedged last winter before deciding to return. He signed a one-year deal for $18 million.

In '04, he made $6.8 million, and the Astros enjoyed a bump in attendance from 2.45 million to 3.09 million.

Clemens has a special arrangement with the Astros that allows him to follow his own schedule. If he is not pitching during a road series, he has the option of staying in Houston. The pitcher enjoyed being able to watch his four sons play sports last season. "Roger helped revitalize baseball in Houston," McLane said. "He is a vital part of our franchise."

But Clemens never rejects the possibility of a trade. During Sunday night's ESPN broadcast of the Giants-Astros game, Joe Morgan asked Clemens if he would consider pitching elsewhere this season. Clemens said only, "I'm not going anywhere now, I know that for sure."

In an interview published in The Sporting News, Clemens was asked if he could envision finishing his career with someone else. Clemens called the question "almost comical," then added, "but it might not be when you get to late July, whenever the trading deadline is. You don't know what direction (the Astros are) going to go in." One American League executive opined, "Roger might be banging the drums for it behind the scenes."

Of course, Clemens has the ultimate control. There is a full no-trade provision in his contract. "And if we did ask him if he'd accept a trade, someone would have to pay him an additional $3 million," Purpura said. "Any club in position to have the luxury tax imposed would have huge tax implications, and then there's the consideration of what would have to come back to us."

For a change, the Yankees might have what it takes, prospect-wise, to get a deal done. As part of their shakeup during their early season slump, they promoted rookie second baseman Robinson Cano, who has been one of their hottest hitters. Chien-Ming Wang took Jaret Wright's spot in the rotation and has pitched well, giving the Yankees two potential trading chips.

The Astros lost a lot of offense last winter when Carlos Beltran and Jeff Kent left as free agents. This season, Lance Berkman missed the first month and Jeff Bagwell went on the disabled list after having surgery on his shoulder.

Joe Torre has said Cano reminds him of Rod Carew and perhaps he'd be a good mix with young Astro third baseman Morgan Ensberg, who McLane is particularly proud of. Of course, the Yankees might not be the only suitors. Clemens has a good relationship with Curt Schilling, which might facilitate a return to Boston.

Still, the Astros say nothing is imminent.

They might be willing to wait longer than most teams before conceding the season, since they were 10½ games out at the All-Star break last year and ended up winning the wild card.

"We have dominant pitching and that's what wins championships," Purpura said. "So for us to consider tearing this apart now is ludicrous."

Told the Astros are clinging to hope, an NL executive said, "Don't let them kid you, they're thinking of trading him right now. They're not going anywhere now and not for a long time."

Other executives disagree.

"He's someone they won't move because he means more to them long-term this year than just as a player for the Yankees," one AL executive said. "Why would they let him finish his career as a Yankee rather than as an Astro? It's like having the Mona Lisa, you just hang it right where you are."

[rockin500]

this is exactly why so many people hates a) the new york media and b)yankees.

[PopTop]

I assume the NYC media will now turn this little groin injury into something like Roger's just trying to skip a start so he can be better rested when he is eventually traded to the Yankees :yadda:



Clemens exits with tight groin, could miss next turn in rotation
Jose de Guacamole Enchilada Cha Cha Cha / Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/sports/bb/3197367)
CHICAGO - Roger Clemens knows his body well, so he realized he would risk serious injury Tuesday night at Wrigley Field if he pushed the velocity on his fastball to his normal 94-95 mph.

After the future Hall of Famer began feeling tightness in his right groin in the third inning, he focused on control and guile to finish with five scoreless innings against the Cubs. Unfortunately for the Astros, they couldn't capitalize on the two-run lead he gave the bullpen. Even worse than the 4-2 loss before a crowd of 38,805, Clemens might have to miss a start because groin injuries aren't easy to overcome for pitchers, especially those who are 42 years old.

"I'm not concerned right now," Clemens said after holding the Cubs to two hits and one walk over five innings while striking out six. "I'll know more tomorrow. Like I said, I know enough about my body that I didn't tear it. I think it's more than just a mild strain. I'll deal with it the best I can and go from there.

"I probably could have finished the game if it was my elbow or my shoulder, but my legs, if I was to drive a ball in over 90 miles per hour, I probably would have torn it."

Power pitchers need their leg muscles. They put tremendous stress on their groin muscles during their explosive deliveries, so nobody was taking Clemens' injury lightly.

"My legs are my most important things," said Clemens, who is in his 22nd major-league season.

Nevertheless, Astros manager Phil Garner is optimistic about having Clemens ready for his next start.

"I think he'll be OK," Garner said.

Clemens was at his dominant best until exiting Tuesday. He dropped his major-league-best ERA from 1.29 to 1.19 and is unscored upon in 26 innings on the road this season. In the first inning, he gave up a one-out single to center to Neifi Perez, who stole second. Clemens stranded Perez by striking out Derrek Lee and inducing a grounder from Jeromy Burnitz. After giving up Michael Barrett's one-out single to center in the second, Clemens appeared to cruise.

Actually, though, Clemens started feeling discomfort in his groin in the third inning and needed to be wrapped between innings by trainer Dave Labossiere.

"It's no different than my younger days when I was pitching and my elbow was hurting and the team would release that I was hurting and that I had elbow problems," Clemens said. "Well, then everybody in the country knows.

"Nobody knew (Tuesday). They were still waiting for a ball at 93-94 miles per hour or whatever my velocity was. It wasn't going to happen, so I could continue on and get deeper in the game."

After Barrett's single in the second, Clemens retired the next 10 Cubs before issuing a two-out walk to Enrique Wilson in the fifth. After walking Wilson, Clemens drew a visit to the mound from Ausmus, Garner and Labossiere. After a brief chat, Garner and Labossiere let Clemens face Sergio Mitre. Clemens got the Cubs pitcher to hit a fielder's-choice grounder to third to end the inning and did not return for the sixth.

"We'll start treating it (today)," Clemens said, "and go from there."

Even before the loss, Garner acknowledged that opponents won't send sympathy cards to the Astros.

"We've played very poorly on the road," Garner said. "I don't hear anybody making any excuses. I would say that there are no excuses to be made. Of course we have injuries, but that's why we have 25 guys on the club. Injuries are a great opportunity for other players to step in and get an opportunity to do what they can do."

[barzilla]

As Keith Olbermann used to say on Sportscenter, "The Astros are Team Gah!"

[PopTop]

Doesn't sound like good news except for Clemens haters around the world...


Alyson Footer / MLB.com (http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050525&content_id=1062635&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou)
CHICAGO -- Roger Clemens' status didn't change much from the time he left his start on Tuedsay night to the hour before Wednesday's game, following treatment for the tightness in his right groin.

He was sore when he left after five innings, and he was sore the next day. Clemens is scheduled to pitch on Monday against the Cincinnati Reds, but as of Wednesday, there were no guarantees that he will make that start.

Clemens felt the strain as early as the third inning, but manager Phil Garner suspects Clemens did most of the damage while pitching to Jeromy Burnitz in the fourth.

"You can have an awkward moment," Garner said. "He was slipping on the mound a little bit. I don't know if you call it a mild strain. I don't know if that's what you call it. We use the word 'tweak' to cover everything but a pull. Sometimes, in a day or two, it's fine, and you don't feel it anymore."

Assuming Clemens starts Monday, how cautious the Astros are with the right-hander will depend on how he feels that day.

"If he feels OK, and he could very well be fine, no we won't [be extra cautious]," Garner said. "But if he still feels it a little bit, yeah, we'll be a little cautious."