GaryMrMets
06-02-2004, 03:07 PM
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/8815518.htm
Posted on Wed, Jun. 02, 2004
Bill Conlin | First, at third base?
ROLEN'S GLOVE, STATS MATCHING UP TO SCHMIDT
FIVE BASEBALL seasons have sped past - fleeter than Smarty Jones - since I outraged many of you with an opinion that Scott Rolen compared favorably with Mike Schmidt at the same stage of their careers.
I used the first three full seasons by each third baseman for the comparison. Rolen was hitting for a higher average, had more RBI and they were neck-and-neck in homers and other power stats. But what caused most of you to ask what I had been smoking, and how often, was my opinion that Rolen was a better defensive third baseman than Schmidt.
That statement has since been confirmed by an impressive array of baseball men, including the guy who played immediately to Schmidt's left for nine seasons, Larry Bowa.
Monday night, in a freewheeling "Baseball Tonight" debate on ESPN, the panelists were asked to name the best at a variety of singular baseball skills. Best defensive player regardless of position? Harold Reynolds gave his vote to Indians shortstop Omar Vizquel. Panel rookie John Kruk, a '93 Phillies icon, said Rolen was not only the best defensive player in the game but would be the best glove at any infield position, including short. "Rolen's got more arm and range than Vizquel," Kruk said.
I concur...
I keep coming back to Rolen vs. Schmidt not to detract 1 inch from Michael Jack's status as the greatest Phillies player of them all, but to emphasize what a watershed disaster the affair Rolen represented in the careers of everybody who gets a pinstriped paycheck.
And, yes, this is now Jim Thome's team. No complaints there. We all knew enough math to deduce the money GM Ed Wade thought would keep Rolen here for the better part of a decade was deferred to the expensive signing of Thome.
Look at the National League leaders today and the one thing that jumps out is Rolen leading the RBI list with 53. But also prominent on the leaderboard is Pat Burrell with 42.
Wasn't that the plan? Two homegrown stars, one (Rolen)
reflecting some sharp, second-round drafting, the other (Burrell) a costly but necessary commitment in the wake of the J.D. Drew fiasco. They would be the power nucleus for a decade.
No sense rehashing the slow erosion of Rolen's resolve to play here long-term, or the messy
divorce that led to his trade to St. Louis - "baseball heaven," as the third baseman called it in a maddening turn of phrase.
But it would be dishonest to turn away and pretend Scott Rolen was a player of mere passing and replaceable consequence. The harsh truth is, the player who couldn't get out of town fast enough is on track for first-ballot Hall of Fame election. The first three full seasons I used next to Schmidt's were not presented as a trend, only a beginning. So, in 2002, I revisited Rolen vs. Schmidt with their five full-season numbers:
After 5 years, Rolen and Schmidt were almost dead even in RBI. Rolen averaged 95 a season, Schmidt 94.2. But Rolen will take a nice lead after season No. 6. He currently has 53; Schmidt was hurt in 1978 and finished with 78 RBI. Average? Rolen is blowing Schmitty away through five, .286 to .257. Doubles? Eat your hearts out. Rolen leads by 48, 179-131, and will increase that lead with another big doubles performance in Year 6. OK, Schmidt leads in homers, 168-129,
after five seasons; this year, Rolen has 13 to Schmidt's 21 in Year 6. However, in the stat that matters most, RBI, Rolen will take a safe lead to the clubhouse in October.
With seven full seasons behind him, Rolen is currently putting up MVP numbers. He has a .348 average and 13 homers to go with the RBI explosion. Every week, you hear about another
incredible, never-before-seen fielding gem and you remember the athlete making them is a 6-5, 230-pound man with the quickness of a jungle cat.
After seven full seasons, he has put some real daylight between his and Schmidt's numbers. Scott turned 29 in April. At the end of his eighth full season, Schmidt had turned 31. He pounded a career-high 48 homers that season. Rolen isn't going there. Going into this season, Rolen trailed in homers by 282-192.
Rolen (through the 2003
season) is ahead of Schmidt through eight seasons in doubles, 264-181, and career average, .282-256.
Schmidt led in triples, 39-24; RBI, 784-707; and runs scored, 776-668. Schmidt had a 129-87 edge in stolen bases. No numbers better reflect their offensive prowess than on-base and slugging percentages, which are surprisingly close. For his career so far, Rolen's OBP is .374, his
SP .510. Schmidt's career OBP was .380, his SP .527.
Any way you look at the numbers, Rolen has a Hall of Fame career in the works.
I started this debate in 1998 certain of just one opinion: Rolen is the best third baseman I have covered, including Schmidt. Those numbers have tilted to the point where they are no longer arguable, given Rolen's great range in all directions and cannon arm.
After seven full seasons, Rolen had 103 errors and a fielding percentage of .965. Schmidt had 150 errors and a percentage of .961.
I'm not going to say, "Case closed." Schmidt kept aging like a fine wine. Part of baseball greatness is the ability to hang on productively while the calendar suggests a golf course would be a safer and saner place to be. The sour-pussed Rolen doesn't appear inclined to play until the shadow of his 40th birthday. Don't expect a teary-eyed retirement news conference from Scotty.
He can save the emotion for an August Sunday in Cooperstown. I think you already know which cap he will wear.
Posted on Wed, Jun. 02, 2004
Bill Conlin | First, at third base?
ROLEN'S GLOVE, STATS MATCHING UP TO SCHMIDT
FIVE BASEBALL seasons have sped past - fleeter than Smarty Jones - since I outraged many of you with an opinion that Scott Rolen compared favorably with Mike Schmidt at the same stage of their careers.
I used the first three full seasons by each third baseman for the comparison. Rolen was hitting for a higher average, had more RBI and they were neck-and-neck in homers and other power stats. But what caused most of you to ask what I had been smoking, and how often, was my opinion that Rolen was a better defensive third baseman than Schmidt.
That statement has since been confirmed by an impressive array of baseball men, including the guy who played immediately to Schmidt's left for nine seasons, Larry Bowa.
Monday night, in a freewheeling "Baseball Tonight" debate on ESPN, the panelists were asked to name the best at a variety of singular baseball skills. Best defensive player regardless of position? Harold Reynolds gave his vote to Indians shortstop Omar Vizquel. Panel rookie John Kruk, a '93 Phillies icon, said Rolen was not only the best defensive player in the game but would be the best glove at any infield position, including short. "Rolen's got more arm and range than Vizquel," Kruk said.
I concur...
I keep coming back to Rolen vs. Schmidt not to detract 1 inch from Michael Jack's status as the greatest Phillies player of them all, but to emphasize what a watershed disaster the affair Rolen represented in the careers of everybody who gets a pinstriped paycheck.
And, yes, this is now Jim Thome's team. No complaints there. We all knew enough math to deduce the money GM Ed Wade thought would keep Rolen here for the better part of a decade was deferred to the expensive signing of Thome.
Look at the National League leaders today and the one thing that jumps out is Rolen leading the RBI list with 53. But also prominent on the leaderboard is Pat Burrell with 42.
Wasn't that the plan? Two homegrown stars, one (Rolen)
reflecting some sharp, second-round drafting, the other (Burrell) a costly but necessary commitment in the wake of the J.D. Drew fiasco. They would be the power nucleus for a decade.
No sense rehashing the slow erosion of Rolen's resolve to play here long-term, or the messy
divorce that led to his trade to St. Louis - "baseball heaven," as the third baseman called it in a maddening turn of phrase.
But it would be dishonest to turn away and pretend Scott Rolen was a player of mere passing and replaceable consequence. The harsh truth is, the player who couldn't get out of town fast enough is on track for first-ballot Hall of Fame election. The first three full seasons I used next to Schmidt's were not presented as a trend, only a beginning. So, in 2002, I revisited Rolen vs. Schmidt with their five full-season numbers:
After 5 years, Rolen and Schmidt were almost dead even in RBI. Rolen averaged 95 a season, Schmidt 94.2. But Rolen will take a nice lead after season No. 6. He currently has 53; Schmidt was hurt in 1978 and finished with 78 RBI. Average? Rolen is blowing Schmitty away through five, .286 to .257. Doubles? Eat your hearts out. Rolen leads by 48, 179-131, and will increase that lead with another big doubles performance in Year 6. OK, Schmidt leads in homers, 168-129,
after five seasons; this year, Rolen has 13 to Schmidt's 21 in Year 6. However, in the stat that matters most, RBI, Rolen will take a safe lead to the clubhouse in October.
With seven full seasons behind him, Rolen is currently putting up MVP numbers. He has a .348 average and 13 homers to go with the RBI explosion. Every week, you hear about another
incredible, never-before-seen fielding gem and you remember the athlete making them is a 6-5, 230-pound man with the quickness of a jungle cat.
After seven full seasons, he has put some real daylight between his and Schmidt's numbers. Scott turned 29 in April. At the end of his eighth full season, Schmidt had turned 31. He pounded a career-high 48 homers that season. Rolen isn't going there. Going into this season, Rolen trailed in homers by 282-192.
Rolen (through the 2003
season) is ahead of Schmidt through eight seasons in doubles, 264-181, and career average, .282-256.
Schmidt led in triples, 39-24; RBI, 784-707; and runs scored, 776-668. Schmidt had a 129-87 edge in stolen bases. No numbers better reflect their offensive prowess than on-base and slugging percentages, which are surprisingly close. For his career so far, Rolen's OBP is .374, his
SP .510. Schmidt's career OBP was .380, his SP .527.
Any way you look at the numbers, Rolen has a Hall of Fame career in the works.
I started this debate in 1998 certain of just one opinion: Rolen is the best third baseman I have covered, including Schmidt. Those numbers have tilted to the point where they are no longer arguable, given Rolen's great range in all directions and cannon arm.
After seven full seasons, Rolen had 103 errors and a fielding percentage of .965. Schmidt had 150 errors and a percentage of .961.
I'm not going to say, "Case closed." Schmidt kept aging like a fine wine. Part of baseball greatness is the ability to hang on productively while the calendar suggests a golf course would be a safer and saner place to be. The sour-pussed Rolen doesn't appear inclined to play until the shadow of his 40th birthday. Don't expect a teary-eyed retirement news conference from Scotty.
He can save the emotion for an August Sunday in Cooperstown. I think you already know which cap he will wear.