Beltran for Dotel!!!!!!

[barzilla]

I've been told that this trade is 90 percent done. Carlos Beltran will go to the Astros. Octavio Dotel will go to the As and prospects (probably including Joe Blanton for those interested) and others will go to Kansas City. Sandy broke this in another thread but I thought it deserved a thread of its own. Basically, this is how I understand its implications on the Astros.

1) Biggio would move to second and Kent would move to third. Essentially, this means you get much better outfield defense, but defense at third could be more shaky. I'll let Sandy explain the defensive tradeoffs there in terms of relative importance by position. The big question will be with the likes of Lamb and Ensberg.

2) Brad Lidge would become the Astros closer and the rest of the bullpen would all move up one spot. The newly acquired Weathers would become the setup man.

Here are the advantages as I see them

1) The Astros lineup was one player short in comparison with the Cubs and Cards. Now, this would put them right in step with those clubs. Beltran also adds the speed element we have so desperately needed. I would think he would hit second which would move Everett back down in the lineup and so you would have a dynamite powerlaiden top six again.

2) You finally get someone that can go out and get em in centerfield. I'm with Sandy on the fact that when you get a guy that has plus range (in comparison with weak range) then you not only get a better centerfielder but he can also cover some ground for Berkman and Lane.

Disadvantages

1) Scott Boras. Boras wants Beltran to test the free agency waters (which is why KC is making this trade in the first place). They were laughed out of the room when they offered him a five year 60 million dollar contract. Now, maybe that will do it in Houston since Houston is a guaranteed competitor but I somehow doubt it. Personally, I think Beltran would do better to sign a deal early because he will not like what he gets in free agency, but if the Yankees want him you can forget it. I think five years 65 million is a nice offer to make but that is a huge committment for the grocer.

2) Taking Dotel out of the bullpen might make the knee-jerk fans happy, but in reality you've taken a great pen in 2003 and stripped it of its best two pitchers in 2004. Can Lidge handle the pressures of being a closer? Geez, that was a pretty big bomb that Jason Bay hit last night in the top of the ninth.

3) Where does this leave Morgan Ensberg? If Kent is moved to third then you have moved two players defensively to accomodate this guy. According to the article that Sandy attached in the other thread, Biggio has been taking grounders at second. More importantly though, you have a player you thought was a part of your future three months ago and permeanently to the bench. Do you trade Ensberg in a package to add another relief pitcher or starter down the line? If you do that you better be confident that you can sign Beltran or another centerfielder in the off-season.

So, we get to the final question. Should we do this trade?

Hmmmm...... hell yes. If you honestly believe that this season represents your best shot for a World Series with Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte then you make this trade. You were planning on letting Hidalgo walk after the season, so what is the difference if it is Beltran? If you thought that Dotel was not your closer of the future then trading him for something you could use is a smart idea. It will create some more headaches this off-season, but we will have a lot anyway. The fans will love this trade. The players will love this trade. The stat geeks love this trade. What else do you want?

[PissedPrincess]

I want him in Boston that's what. :smokin:

[Durango53]

I think that would be tough for Ensberg? Maybe work out a deal for Ensberg for Chacon? Just joking I dont think you could get a 6 pack of Bud for that loser right now.

I think it would be a great trade for the Astros and who knows you might be able to get a something good out of Ensberg to sure up the back end of the pen if Lidge cant get it done.

[rockin500]

the big problem here would be that you have turned what was a strength last year into one of your liabilities.

Offensively, this will help, but the infield defense would be hit. This trade won't help the astros much if they dont shore up the bullpen.

[Sandy]

This is DEFINITELY a "let's win it this year" move. But by dumping Hidalgo last week, they DO have some salary room next season to throw at Beltran.

From an offensive standpoint, the move is humongous. It's not JUST about Beltran in the most-of-the-time lineup -- it ALSO means that Lane and Ensberg/Lamb are available bench players, (Bruntlett is likely the odd man out). The bench gets stronger, which to a degree offsets some of the bullpen loss.

The Weathers acquisition obviously doesn't fully offset the loss of Dotel, but then again, the more obvious result is an extra inning for the starters. Once Pettitte gets back to full strength, he's definitely capable of going deep into games. The real question is whether the top 4 SPs can stay healthy. If so, the pen doesn't actually NEED to be as deep as it has been - because instead of Redding AND the #5 plug-in struggling to finish 4 twice a week, you've only got Redding short-arming the games.

Defensively, there IS danger. The Astros ARE a groundball skewed staff. But it's more of a pitcher-by-pitcher deal. Wade Miller has skewed well into flyball land this season, so he should gain a LOT by having Beltran out there. Pettitte, on the other hand, is a lefty, AND a groundball pitcher - and most groundball outs are pulled - so he 'might' suffer a bit.

But, realistically, 3B gets WAY fewer plays than CF, so the negative of a downgrade at third shouldn't be a major concern. In all honesty, the larger concern for me is wondering how much range Biggio still has at second. The good news is that his 2002 Z-rating at second was almost identical to Kent's. They're both on the wrong side of 32, so I'm hoping that isn't a major impact.

If I'm in the ballpark at all with my defensive ideas, Pettitte and Gallo are the only guys that might lose out in the defensive shuffling. The rest of the staff should benefit defensively - and everyone gains on the offensive side.

If I'm the Cubs or Cards - I'm scared s***less at this trade. If this DOES go thru, I'd expect to see a countermove from one or both within two weeks.

[rockin500]

Jim Hendry is going to make a countermove anyways. He doesnt believe in standing still. but he's not going to make a trade just to make a trade.

[barzilla]

I'm told that Biggio will move to left, Berkman to right and Lane to the bench. Kent is refusing to play third.

[Baseball Guru]

http://www.foxsports.com/content/view?contentId=2512002

Ken Rosenthal


As the Astros continue to underachieve in the NL Central, club officials are considering a dynamic addition who could transform their aging, stagnant club into a legitimate World Series contender.

Imagine Carlos Beltran playing center field at Minute Maid Park.
A potential three-way deal that would have sent Beltran to the Astros collapsed earlier this week when the A's backed out because they could not afford the $2.8 million salary of Astros closer Octavio Dotel, whom they would have received in the deal. The A's would have sent Triple-A third baseman Mark Teahen to the Astros, who then would have included Teahen in a package for Beltran.

The Astros remain interested in Beltran, but are reluctant to enter a bidding war with the Red Sox, Yankees and other clubs for a player they likely would not retain as a free agent. But after saving approximately $3 million by trading right fielder Richard Hidalgo to the Mets, the team is in position to make a major move. And with pitcher Roger Clemens, second baseman Jeff Kent and outfielder Craig Biggio unsigned beyond this season, Houston remains in a win-now mode.


Royals general manager Allard Baird has targeted four teams that could offer the affordable third-baseman/catcher combination that he wants for Beltran. While the Astros are not one of those four teams, they could part with Triple-A catcher John Buck, who was a favorite of Royals manager Tony Pena when Pena was managing in the Astros' organization. Third baseman Morgan Ensberg, Triple-A second baseman Chris Burke and Double-A center fielder Willy Tavares also could interest the Royals.

Trading one or more of those players for a short-term rental might create problems for the Astros long-term, but one way around that would be to involve a third club that could help satisfy the Royals. The A's and Marlins have shown a desire to broker deals in such fashion. Both those teams, however, are seeking bullpen help, and the Astros and Royals have little to spare.

Acquiring Beltran also would be politically delicate for the Astros, who would need to shift franchise cornerstone Biggio from center field to left, or perhaps make him a super-utility man who could play both the outfield and spell Kent at second. Biggio, 38, entered Tuesday's play batting .307 with eight home runs and 30 RBIs, but one executive says his play in center is "killing" the Astros, a team with little defensive range.

The Astros have long sought an athletic center fielder, and Beltran would be an ideal fit. Though Biggio had not made an error in 129 total chances entering Tuesday's play, he ranked 13th in both range factor (putouts plus assists divided by innings) and zone rating (the percentage of balls fielded by a player in his typical defensive zone, as measured by STATS, Inc.).

The acquisition of Beltran also would force the Astros to move Lance Berkman from left to right, where he is less comfortable, and return Jason Lane to a fourth outfielder's role. Shifting so many pieces could be disruptive, but the Astros would be getting a player who could transform them offensively and defensively. There might be no other way for them to catch the Cardinals and Cubs.

[barzilla]

Ugggggggggggggggggg..... I think this deal is pretty much dead at this point.

[Blue56]

i'm telling you Beltran won't be traded

[PissedPrincess]

I am so sick of String Beane always pretending to be in on these deals. The man is a fraud. :angry:

[PopTop]

The deal's apparently dead, so my conjecture and opinions are for nought at this time ... My bottom line is I don't like trading an arm like Dotel, despite his early woes as the closer, for a guy you're only going to have in your jersey for 90 games.

The original idea of Beltran in CF, Biggio at 2B and Kent at 3B wouldn't be too bad, to me it would be less of an upset defensively than shifting EVERYONE around in the OF ... I think you upgrade at CF and 2B in that move, with a huge upgrade in CF and a fair upgrade at 2B (Bidge is still a better 2B than Kent if on effort alone) ... Your defense drops at 3B with Kent over even Lamb on a bad day ... But ask me if I'm surprised that Kent might nix something like this :hmm:

I think we're better off adding depth to the pitching staff than going after some big name bat for a summer rental. I'd really like to see them add a closer, if possible, since I'm quite certain Dotel would be so mad he'd become lights out as the 8th-inning arm ... At least I'd rather see if we could get someone like Steve Finley for cheaper than giving up Dotel. My $0.02, and I've probably got change coming.

[barzilla]

Pops,

Those are salient points. I really don't see this trade working with the Astros alone. Basically, as I understand it they would want Ensberg, Buck, and either Burke or Tavares. In my humble opinion, that hurts worse than trading Dotel because your talking about your third basemen, catcher, and second basemen or centerfielder of the future.

I can see us facilitating a Dotel trade with another team (Florida?) possibly, but that is a long shot at this point. I think we go back to Boston and New York as the favorites for his services. Imagine being an Oakland A fan. Your club doesn't want to pay only 2.8 million to have a reliable closer (they have blown more than half of their save opportunities). That's gotta suck.

[Sandy]

Shame that the deal is dead. But I gotta admit my ego got a boost when this one was reported. :)

[PopTop]

Imagine being an Oakland A fan. Your club doesn't want to pay only 2.8 million to have a reliable closer
In truth, they said they didn't want to pay Dotel $2.8 million for a "reliable closer" the rest of the way ... I don't blame them, really, since OD hasn't proven to me he's a bonafide, genuine upper echelon closer.

We'd be fools to trade some combination of Buck, Burke and Taveras in any deal ... That is, for all intents and purposes, the extent of our minor league depth, not counting any pitchers ... This team isn't being managed to its potential, hasn't been since Jimy got here ... Go find a cheap outfielder and some more pitching, plus a new manager, if you're truly committed to winning this year.

[gpspartans]

Do it...

How can we be in next to last place?

Anyway, Dotel hasn't worked out like I thought and Ensburg has forgotten how to hit for power. THIS YEAR!

[bagger]

In truth, they said they didn't want to pay Dotel $2.8 million for a "reliable closer" the rest of the way ... I don't blame them, really, since OD hasn't proven to me he's a bonafide, genuine upper echelon closer.

We'd be fools to trade some combination of Buck, Burke and Taveras in any deal ... That is, for all intents and purposes, the extent of our minor league depth, not counting any pitchers ... This team isn't being managed to its potential, hasn't been since Jimy got here ... Go find a cheap outfielder and some more pitching, plus a new manager, if you're truly committed to winning this year.
i've read that the problem was less with the remaining $3m in 2004 but the arbitration figure he'd undoubtedly get next season (~$5m). beane is looking at dotel as his closer beyond the rest of this season. if you don't blame them for not taking the $3m, i guess you can't blame them for not taking on $8m…

i think if we get beltran, williams will most likely finish the year. by most likely, i mean it's very unlikely that we stay far from 1st if we add a player of that calibur. if he still manages to have us out of striking distance, then i see us bringing in a manager that can at least consistently break even with his team's pythagorean win-loss.

another theoretical… if we don't get beltran, do we go for a guy like steve finley? it doesn't seem like a bad idea, but i can't see us doing all the potential outfield/kent shuffling unless it's a big name like beltran.

[barzilla]

Okay folks here is the story as I understand it.

1. The latest has the Astros offering Ensberg and Buck for Beltran. I don't think the Royals can fetch much more than that because of the Boras connection, so much like the McGrady situation I see Baird flailing around for awhile to see if he can get a better offer. He won't get one much better than that, so it is a waiting game.

2. Jeff Kent has said he will not play third so it goes back to the outfield shuffle if any deal is made for an outfielder.

To tell you the truth I am torn on this one. Hector Gimenez is in the Round Rock and was the Defensive player of the Astros Minors last year, so he is a decent prospect even if he looks like a young Brad Ausmus. The question for us is whether Mike Lamb can handle the third base position now and who will man the position beyond this year. Does this open something up for Tommy Whiteman or do you go outside the organization?

More importantly, you made the Randy Johnson trade knowing two things: Randy Johnson would likely not return and the players we traded would end up being valuable big league players (at least Freddy Garcia and Carlos Guillen). We did it because we honestly believed we would win the World Series with Randy Johnson and looking back I agree with the decision.

So, the questions here are:

1) Do we honestly believe Ensberg and Buck will be solid big league players for a number of years?

With Ensberg I'm honestly not sure. He fizzled in 2002 and is fizzling in 2004. So is this year a fluke or was last year? With Buck I don't know either. He played in the Futures Game and is putting up good numbers right now but Houston has a habit of letting their youngsters whither at the vine (Lane, Ward, Buck, et al). My honest bet is that Buck will be a middle of the road regular catcher and the same for Ensberg.

2) Do we honestly believe that Beltran will put us over the top?

My clear answer is no. We have an inferior manager that would most likely keep his job because the club would inevitably improve and so we would be just good enough to stay in it but he would not be good enough to drive us over the top. We also would be keeping our fingers crossed at third base and would be left with no money to make a true deadline deal for any additional help.

3) Do we have a snowball's chance in hell of signing Beltran?

Again, this all depends on the Yankees. If the Yankees want him I would say no chance in hell. If the Yankees are happy with center then we have maybe a 50/50 chance if the club wants to re-sign him. With Bernie Williams and Kenny Lofton fizzling I expect the Yankees to want him.

So, would I do this trade?

I really don't know. It sounds better than including Burke or Tavares, but it still takes away two future position players for a shot at the brass ring. I agree with Pops in the fact that Jimy is a major impediment to this team winning. Maybe the combination of Beltran's fielding and hitting would be enough when the pitching gets healthy. Is the trade good enough for us based on maybes? Maybe.

[PopTop]

Just announced: Beltran to Houston for Dotel, John Buck and some cash.

[barzilla]

"some cash"? We are sending them cash? Huh? They're just going to turn around and trade him near the deadline for their third base prospect. So, why do THEY need the money? I think we need the money more.

The good thing about this trade is that we get him for three and a half months versus the normal two in a trade deadline deal. The bad thing is that this blows are wad in terms of excess cash from the Hidalgo trade. If it turns out we need more bullpen help it will have to come from within.

[rockin500]

the more i look at this trade, the more i think its bad. as i said before, your greatest strength last year is now your biggest liability. do you honestly expect lidge to handle the increased pressure and load?

[PissedPrincess]

Good stuff Stros!

:Party:

Very happy for you.

[barzilla]

Great deeds come with great costs. Hopefully the opening of the blood bank will continue and we can get a relief pitcher nearer the deadline. I somehow doubt it though.

Associated Press

Star center fielder Carlos Beltran was traded from Kansas City to the Houston Astros on Thursday night as part of a three-way deal that also sent closer Octavio Dotel to Oakland. The Royals wound up with three prospects: highly touted third baseman Mark Teahen and right-hander Mike Wood from Oakland, and catcher John Buck from the Astros.

"This is obviously huge for our organization," Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker said. "Carlos Beltran is one of the most exciting, complete players in our game today.
"He's the prototype we've been looking for for a long time. He's going to be a very exciting force for us in the middle of our lineup," he said.

Beltran can become a free agent this fall -- but for now, he joined a team clearly going all out this year to win its first World Series. The Astros spent millions last offseason to bring pitchers Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte to Houston. Clemens, who already ended one brief retirement, agreed only to a one-year deal, while longtime stars Jeff Bagwell and Craig Biggio are nearing the end of their careers.

Last week, the Astros traded right fielder Richard Hidalgo to the New York Mets for reliever David Weathers and a minor league pitcher. This time, Houston pulled off a much bigger deal.

"When you have a chance to get an All-Star like Beltran, you do it, then you worry about filling in holes. He significantly makes us better, he is an impact player and will have an effect on our ballclub," Hunsicker said. The multitalented Beltran is hitting .278 with 15 homers, 51 RBI and 14 steals.

"I feel pretty good about this. Obviously, it's bittersweet," Royals general manager Allard Baird said. "It was obvious we were not going to be able to sign Carlos. But I think we've helped this club and gotten some players that should have very productive major league careers," he said. "I'm going to bring Buck and Wood to the majors right away."

Buck was hitting .300 with 12 home runs and 35 RBI in 227 at-bats for Houston's Triple-A affiliate in New Orleans. Beltran's arrival almost certainly means yet another position change for Biggio, who started his career as catcher, moved to second base and then center field. Biggio will probably move to left, with Lance Berkman shifting to right.

The 27-year-old Beltran, the biggest prize on the trade market, is making $9 million this season. He's represented by Scott Boras, who usually does not have his players re-sign before testing the free-agent market. "It's been a crazy day, with a lot of ups and downs. It was a very challenging day for all of us," Hunsicker said.

As part of the trade, the A's also received cash from Kansas City, an amount under $1 million. Oakland was looking for help at the back of the bullpen. "At the time I went to bed it didn't look like this would get done," A's general manager Billy Beane said. "There were other possibilities. To Gerry's credit, he said, 'We have worked so hard on this one. It would be a shame if we don't get it done.' "

Dotel, 30, is 0-4 with a 3.12 ERA and 14 saves in 17 chances in his first year as a closer following the trade of three-time All-Star Billy Wagner to Philadelphia in the offseason. He takes over as the closer in an Oakland bullpen that has more blown saves (14) than saves (13).

Dotel was even booed off the mound by the normally patient Houston crowd after allowing three ninth-inning runs in a June 15 loss to the Chicago Cubs. "It's not that we had our eye on Dotel. It was a case of finding a guy in that position and role that's both available and also affordable," Beane said.

"Face it, it's hard to find a premier guy at the end of the game that's going to be available. There are very few guys who fit that bill," he said. Minus Dotel, Brad Lidge becomes the Astros' closer -- for now. Asked if Houston might bring in a veteran relief ace, Hunsicker cracked a smile and said: "We'll see what tomorrow brings."

[Panzram]

Carlos Beltran
ESPN reports that the Astros have acquired Carlos Beltran in a three-team deal involving the A's. Octavio Dotel will go to Oakland and the Royals will get three prospects.

Brad Lidge
With Octavio Dotel heading to the A's as part of the Carlos Beltran deal, Brad Lidge will take over as the new closer for the Astros.

[Toy Cannon]

the more i look at this trade, the more i think its bad. as i said before, your greatest strength last year is now your biggest liability. do you honestly expect lidge to handle the increased pressure and load?

Dotel apparently couldn't. This is similar to the rent-a-player trade Houston pulled off in 1998 for the Unit. If they make it to the WS, it's a great trade, if they don't, the difference is at least they only give up one top prospect. I really hate to see John Buck leave. I watched him progress here at Round Rock and am sure he's the real deal. KC got themselves a very fine young catcher.

Look for another trade in the next couple of weeks for a middle reliever/set-up man. I don't see the Hun standing still in this area and I don't see Weathers and Miceli being the primary set-up guys. There's always pitchers such as Solomon Torres available in July.

[barzilla]

TC,

Agreed on all counts. As you said earlier though, the grocer is always counting his pennies.

[Baseball Guru]

Dotel apparently couldn't. This is similar to the rent-a-player trade Houston pulled off in 1998 for the Unit. If they make it to the WS, it's a great trade, if they don't, the difference is at least they only give up one top prospect..


Well said and EXACTLY my thinking.....

IMO, this is a very good trade for the Stros....Dotel really didnt show signs of bing that dominant closer so why not get one of the best OF'ers in the game even if its only for this season... Hell, if he helps you win the division, do it!!

Can you imagine how his #'s are gonna look playing in Houston:eek:

[PopTop]

do you honestly expect lidge to handle the increased pressure and load?

That's a good point, Ray. My only answer is I don't expect he'll be any worse or inconsistent than Dotel. Lidge certainly handled it Thursday night, looked entirely pumped when he took the hill with a 3-2 lead in the 9th. If he can throw 95+ MPH fastballs and that nasty slider like he did in last night's game, he'll do fine. Will just have to see over time how he handles the pressure, but I do not think his workload will increase, even with Jimy managing.

I would feel better with one more solid setup arm now, however. Maybe Drayton really is going balls to the wall for this season, meaning he'll loosen the purse strings and go get another reliever pretty soon.

[Toy Cannon]

Look for another trade in the next couple of weeks for a middle reliever/set-up man. I don't see the Hun standing still in this area and I don't see Weathers and Miceli being the primary set-up guys. There's always pitchers such as Solomon Torres available in July.

From the Houston Chronicle:
Hunsicker has one more move in mind. He'd like to add A's lefthander Arthur Rhodes to eat up some of those setup innings in front of new closer Brad Lidge.

From the NY Dailey News:
Meanwhile, sources told the News last night that Hunsicker is not done dealing, and is expected to make another trade today or tomorrow for a closer - believed to be the Tigers' Ugueth Urbina.

[barzilla]

If the grocer let's us do either of those trades then he has my temporary respect. Gerry Hunsicker already has my permeanent (as much as it can be) respect for the series of deals he has pulled off already. If you were to add Urbina or Rhodes to this mix I think you would have to put the Astros as the prohibitive favorite (minus Jimy).

[Toy Cannon]

If the grocer let's us do either of those trades then he has my temporary respect. Gerry Hunsicker already has my permeanent (as much as it can be) respect for the series of deals he has pulled off already. If you were to add Urbina or Rhodes to this mix I think you would have to put the Astros as the prohibitive favorite (minus Jimy).

If the Astros can't make it to the WS with this team, I would think the blame would fall squarely on the 1m's stooped shoulders. Kinda scary isn't it, Jimy managing under that kind of pressure?

[PopTop]

I'm not sure I want to imagine Jimy managing under playoff pressure ... Then again, Jimy has managed a club to a playoff series win, so in that respect he is one up on any Astros team ... I really can't remember off the top of my head any moment in Boston's '98 or '99 playoffs that Jimy pulled a real bonehead move, maybe Princess or some other esteemed member of Sox Nation can refresh my memory ... About the only thing I can remember in the '99 ALCS right now is Knoblauch's phantom tag.

Of course, we're getting way ahead of ourselves ... Jimy's got plenty of time to pull a zillion regular season boneheads before we start worrying about postseason boneheads :hmm:

[Toy Cannon]

I'm not sure I want to imagine Jimy managing under playoff pressure ... Then again, Jimy has managed a club to a playoff series win, so in that respect he is one up on any Astros team ... I really can't remember off the top of my head any moment in Boston's '98 or '99 playoffs that Jimy pulled a real bonehead move, maybe Princess or some other esteemed member of Sox Nation can refresh my memory ... About the only thing I can remember in the '99 ALCS right now is Knoblauch's phantom tag.

Of course, we're getting way ahead of ourselves ... Jimy's got plenty of time to pull a zillion regular season boneheads before we start worrying about postseason boneheads :hmm:

I wasn't talking about playoff pressure. I meant knowing that if Houston doesn't make it, he's just a bad page of history. The pressure is on him to get there.

[Baseball Guru]

Did you guys see the catch Beltran made today:eek:

Just awesome:thumbsup:

[Toy Cannon]

Did you guys see the catch Beltran made today:eek:

Just awesome:thumbsup:

That's why they pay him the big bucks:D

[Baseball Guru]

:evillol

Right you are:D

[Toy Cannon]

:evillol

Right you are:D
Seriously, it is soooooo nice to have a CF again.:thumbsup:

[PopTop]

No lie, last time we had a legit centerfielder was Finley!





:bball:

[PissedPrincess]

I'm not sure I want to imagine Jimy managing under playoff pressure ... Then again, Jimy has managed a club to a playoff series win, so in that respect he is one up on any Astros team ... I really can't remember off the top of my head any moment in Boston's '98 or '99 playoffs that Jimy pulled a real bonehead move, maybe Princess or some other esteemed member of Sox Nation can refresh my memory ... About the only thing I can remember in the '99 ALCS right now is Knoblauch's phantom tag.

Of course, we're getting way ahead of ourselves ... Jimy's got plenty of time to pull a zillion regular season boneheads before we start worrying about postseason boneheads :hmm:

In all honesty, the Sox really had no pitching in 99 outside of Pedro. It was a freakin miracle they made it past Cleveland. 1M honestly didn't eff up much in that playoff series.

[Toy Cannon]

In all honesty, the Sox really had no pitching in 99 outside of Pedro. It was a freakin miracle they made it past Cleveland. 1M honestly didn't eff up much in that playoff series.
Typical Jimy though. He never used less than 3 pitchers in any game and in the 23-7 blowout he used 6!!!:eek: