Total insanity Mets gave up the farm

[WilponSTINKS]

Peterson
Kamir
Huber

For Zambrano and Benson I am shocked stupified and im still trying to get all the details in

totally stunned :no:

[Liter22]

If I'm not mistaken Kazmir can't get passed the 4th inning and is having a bad year so he seems to be declining, I say who cares about him. Peterson I liked and when the hell would Hurber ever get any playing time? He seems to be the odd man out like Wiggey was.

[Cyberlibrarian]

The whole farm? What happened to Milledge, Keppel, Jacobs, Garcia, Duncan... :confused:

We now have the deepest 1-5 rotation in our division. And people are whining.

Amazing. Just amazing.

[barzilla]

I think these moves only make sense if Benson re-signs. With Zambrano and Benson you have a good rotation but the offense is still too weak to win the wild card. But, if you keep both of those guys to go along with Glavine, Leiter, and Traschel then you can add offense in the off-season and be ready to compete in 2005.

[WilponSTINKS]

Keppel Garcia and Duncan?????they are nothing but role players that's why nobody wanted them in any trades

Ok so we have the deepest 1-5 in the majors what does that get us now? we are 7 games out and the bullpen is awful and the offense is bad

the Marlins have just gotten better, and the Braves are the Braves, tell me how having the deepest 1-5 helps this year?


I'll leave the Benson deal alone because I think we can sign him, plus I may have overeacted with Huber seeing how Jacobs has stepped out in front as a catcher

Kazmir for Zambrano why do that deal?

They could have at least waited for the offseason to trade Kazmir for something better in a different package if they wanted to deal him so badly

there are going to be alot of pitchers available this offseason who we wouldn't have to give up players for

[Rockin Robin]

Kazmir for Zambrano why do that deal?

Zambrano has proven himself in the majors. We have no idea what Kazmir will do at that level. Is he the real deal, or is he another Aaron Heilman?? Besides, a lot of people in the know think his carreer will be over by the time he's 25.

I had actually expected the Mets to be on the quiet side right now, but being aggressive in the off season. These moves prove that they feel this season is still a possibility, that the division is still very much up for grabs. It's exciting.


Now if we could only pick up a left handed reliever.

[WilponSTINKS]

Well we can't turn back now, deals are done
Rick Peterson has now proven he carries alot of weight in the organization when it comes to pitching and he better get these new guys turned around
I do have faith he will too so that makes the blow a little less harder

also you said
"These moves prove that they feel this season is still a possibility, that the division is still very much up for grabs. It's exciting."

do YOU feel that the divison is still up for grabs despite being 7 agmes out and in 4th place behind the Marlins who just go better and the Braves who never go away

[Cyberlibrarian]

Keppel is considered a top pitching prospect. He's been under the radar, but he is gaining in importance in the organization.

As for Benson, he has already said that he wants to re-sign. His agent also represents Tom Glavine, and the agent has said he will recommend that he re-sign.

What is so wrong with having the deepest rotation in the division?

[WilponSTINKS]

Keppel is constantly getting bombed in norfolk he is nothing special, his ERA is over 5 gives up a ton of hits as well, he makes Heilman look like Cy Young
if he was gaining importance he would have been up instead of Ginter or Erickson
But this is all moot now seeing how the rotation is set

Ok so benson has talked about signing, good lets get it done, I actually like that deal

There is nothing wrong with having the deepest rotation in the division but the timing is just awful
We gave up our best pitching prospect for our 5 starter, when we could have waited for the offseason and gotten something better

Rick Peterson better fix this guy and make him a stud because trading one of our jewels at this point in the season makes no sense

[Cyberlibrarian]

There are some out there who think that Kazmir will end up a closer. If you can trade a POTENTIAL closer for a solid CURRENT starter who is not old, you do it.

And, I repeat the comparisons to Billy Wagner. Billy Wagner is on the DL AGAIN.

[WilponSTINKS]

So because he might be a potential closer we trade him now?
It makes no sense to trade for a 5th starter in season when we are almost dead an buried

The best thing to do was keep him and trade him in the offseason, what if a guy like Bary Zito becomes available?
and even if Zito wasn't available there are plenty of starters out there better than Zambrano going to free agency


and you keep comparing him to wagner, well i'd take the prospects of a solid closer like Wagner over a guy who is also not a given in Zambrano who is just about 30

[Cyberlibrarian]

Why would you keep a potential closer, someone who can't even help you for at least another year and a half, and not get someone who can help for that year and a half. Plus there's the little fact that we already have a closer.

But, since you won't listen to me, perhaps you'll listen to Jayson Stark. I know he has more contacts in baseball than I do, and I'm betting he has more than you do.

Here (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1850117) is the piece.

Highlights:

4. Mets

True, they were seven games out of first place. True, they've never been more than two games over .500 at any point all season. So we understand why people looked at the Mets' two deals -- for Kris Benson and Victor Zambrano -- and thought, "Have they lost their minds?"

But in the end, we bet, they'll wind up looking smarter than many people think -- as long as Rick Peterson lives up to his reputation as Best Pitching Coach on Earth, and as long as Scott Kazmir doesn't go on to win 12 Cy Youngs.

It's up to Peterson to tap the magic in Zambrano's arm. To do it, he's going to have to make a whole bunch of walks and hit batters disappear. (Had Zambrano not been traded, he was on track to join Randy Johnson as the only American Leaguers in the last half-century to lead the league in walks and HBPs in back-to-back seasons.)

But this is also a guy who throws 96 miles an hour and was holding opposing hitters to a .230 batting average. So he's eminently salvageable. In fact, Peterson reportedly told the Mets he could get Zambrano straightened out "in 10 minutes." And if he's right, that Mets rotation just got very dangerous.

Peterson is also the big reason Benson immediately told the Mets he wants to sign and stick around. Benson and Tom Glavine share the same agent (Greg Clifton). So Benson is well aware of what the pitching coach did for Glavine this year.

Obviously, Benson's 43-49 lifetime record doesn't make you think, say, Tom Seaver. But scouts who have been following Benson say he's cleaned up his delivery, figured out how to pitch and made himself a far more attractive commodity than the numbers on his baseball card might suggest.

So if that's his real self, and the Mets can get him signed, this potentially gives them maybe the NL East's deepest rotation for the rest of this year and beyond.

But what people are wondering is: At what price?

On paper, the three minor leaguers they traded -- Kazmir, pitcher Matt Peterson and catcher Justin Huber -- looked like their three best prospects. But there are mixed reviews on all of them.

Peterson was described by one scouting director as "a No. 5 starter" and by another as "a No. 4, at best." The same scouting directors questioned Huber's instincts and projected him as no better than a backup catcher in the big leagues.

So it's Kazmir who will ultimately determine the wisdom of these deals. And one scouting director called him "the best prospect traded by anyone this year."

But two other scouting directors we surveyed had their doubts. Both think he'll wind up as a relief pitcher. And, given his size (6-feet, 170 pounds), he'll draw comparisons to Billy Wagner -- not necessarily for the better.

Wagner, said one scouting director, "is much stronger physically than Kazmir. So to me, the best he'll be is a poor man's Billy Wagner."

Kazmir could prove everybody wrong -- or right. But you know there will be a lot of people in baseball -- and in New York -- watching him try.

Emphasis mine.

I still think we did well. We now have the deepest rotation in our division and, if we can re-sign Benson (which I really do think we can), they will all be under our control until the end of '05 AT THE EARLIEST.

The team has an option on Al for next year and, if he continues to pitch well, they'll probably exercise it.

Tommy is signed through next year, and I believe there's an option there for '06.

Trachsel was signed through this year, but they gave him an extension through '06.

Zambrano is eligible for arbitration this year, but can't be an FA until '07.

Personally, I'd say we're in good shape.

Now, let's see how we can fix the bats...

[WilponSTINKS]

Yea I read that article as well, but there are also good writers who have the opposite view of Stark such as Buster Olney who also writes for espn the magazine
We could keep going back and forth saying I hate the deal you like it blah blah blah
It's clear we are not going to agree so what else is there to do but to sit back now and pray for Rick Peterson to work his "magic"

[Cyberlibrarian]

It's not only Stark who likes the deal. There are a lot of other people who do too.

Do you remember ANYTHING about what was said when Kazmir signed? Baseball pundits as well as Mets fans were whining that he was too small and wouldn't have enough stamina. Obviously, the Mets now believe this too.

[WilponSTINKS]

These the same people who thought Bob Keppel was going under the radar and was going to be an important part of the mets future?

Plus if the mets have gotten tired of Kazmir why not wait till the offseason to see what he brings in?
The texas Rangers who are pitching hungry turned down a deal of Kevin Mench for Zambrano
What other teams were willing to part with a top prospect for Zambrano?

I understand you and others feel he is going to be a bust, but he is a hot commodity in the minors, if you are going to trade him you make sure you get back a sure thing not a guy you are not sure about. This deal was a desperation move, you could have easily packaged Kazmir along with other guys for a better player than Zambrano in the offseason,but this all comes down to Fred Wilpon having an excuse to not go after a big pitcher in the offseason
Duquette already mentioned that this move was very cost effective which goes to show they are saving their money.
Now watch the money they save will not be invested on a big player for the lineup, they will lower payroll raise ticket prices and Wilpon can go cry to Bloomberg how he wants the city to pay for a new stadium because he is too damn cheap to buy his own....that last part was just some Wilpon hatred added for my enjoyment

[Baseball Guru]

stupified



I really have to admit that I love the word stupified:D

Thats it, nothing more to add:)