My thoughts on the trade

[barzilla]

Princess wanted me to come in sooner to comment on the Nomar trade so let me make a couple of observations. So, let me first comment on the players that the Red Sox are bringing in.

Orlando Cabrera

Cabrera was in a similar situation as Nomar. He was not going to do well in Montreal for a variety of reasons. Both he and Jose Vidro saw their production take a huge slide this season. Maybe it was the departure of Vlad Guerrero or maybe it was the stress of not having a real home and not knowing when you would have a new home. Either way, with the likes of Manny and Ortiz he should return to his 2002 and 2003 form. You are looking at an 800 plus OPS with better defense than Nomar gave.

Doug Mienkiewicz

I've never been a big Mienkiewicz fan because he reminds me a lot of JT Snow. He's a great defender and a so-so offensive player. I wouldn't want him to be a long-term answer at the position, but for right now he should be a slightly better hitter than McCarty and a better fielder than anything they have.

Could the Sox have gotten more for Nomar?

I don't know the answer to this question. I know that Theo couldn't have gotten more at the deadline because Nomar becomes a rental. If Nomar had been healthy in spring training it would have been a different story, so I'm inclined to believe he did what he could. Listen, anytime you trade a star at the deadline you are under the gun. You think anyone thought the Ms got what they could when they got Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, and John Halama at the time of the Randy Johnson trade?

Where will the Sox go from here?

Cabrera will be considerably cheaper than Nomar, but will be a suitable replacement. This leaves a decision at first base. Mienkiewicz is a free agent to be so you don't have to go with him next year unless you want. Carlos Delgado will be a free agent and there could be a number of trade possibilities in the off-season.

Are the Sox still the favorite to win the wild-card?

I would say yes, as the Cards have proven this year, you don't have to have superior pitchers to have superior pitching. If you have good pitchers they can be made better by great defense. Yes, this comes from the person that says that defense is "not that important". See, the good thing about the Cards fielders is that they are also great hitters. If Cabrera can return to 2002 and 2003 form then the Red Sox are in really good shape. I heard a statistic that Derek Lowe has more unearned runs than some AL teams. I certainly believe that he and Wakefield will benefit greatly from vastly improved defense.

Of course, this might seem like a reversal of philosophy from me, but in this limited situation the Sox are getting better defense without surrendering offense. That is the key and why I'm praising this deal (considering the gun to the head approach by Nomar that is coming out in the press) as good under the circumstances. MIENKIEWICZ WILL HURT THE SOX IF HE IS THE 1B IN 2005. For right now he is better than McCarty.

[PissedPrincess]

I pretty much agree with you Zilla. Had Nomah been healthy in Spring, we coulda gotten much more for him. He wasn't. I am quite disturbed he took the low road here. Sticking it to the Red Sox only hurt his fans, most of whom are kids. For that, I hope he rots in hell. :angry:

I agree that the HUGE defensive upgrades will help the pitchers. It already has. Wakefield was dumbfounded at the plays Cabrera made behind him.

We'll find a slugger somewhere for next year next year. The question is, can we survive this year? Well, with Nomar, we were a .500 team. I really don't see us being any worse.

[cxlx]

They keep making references to Renteria and Magglio. With that kinda money, we can be kissing, at least two or maybe three of our big name FA next year, good bye.

[PissedPrincess]

I don't see it Bob. The Sox are cutting payroll, massively. Next year you'll see a AAA type club.

[cxlx]

I know they're going to try to bring it down so they dont have to pay the luxury tax. However, they just cut $5 million, with the Nomar trade. And did you know that freaking Ricky Gutierrez makes over $4 mill????? Thats crazy!!! They should cut him. Petey's salary will go down next year if they sign him. Drug runner is making $6 mill, they may or may not resign him. So I think there will be some room left to do something. Call me crazy....but thats what Im feeling. :notme:

[PissedPrincess]

Hey, we all feel how we feel. I just see this team getting blown up and sold during the off-season.

[Thedatch]

I don't see it Bob. The Sox are cutting payroll, massively. Next year you'll see a AAA type club.

rejoice all red sox fans! if that happens, i will be happy for the rest of my life! bring in some people without the attitude, who really want to play ball. also, bring in a manager that can work with young guys (i dunno if tito can...doubt it) then lets start the rebuilding process

its never gonna happen, face it. the red sox and their fans are so caught up in trying to beat the yankees they will never restructure, or blow up the team. not to mention that about half the fans would desert them.

a fools dream i guess

[rockin500]

how in the EFF is rickey making 4 mil?

[cxlx]

how in the EFF is rickey making 4 mil?

I dont know...but hes #11 on the list (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=bos). :notme:

[rockin500]

thats nuts! :eek:

[barzilla]

I don't think Guitterez will be back next year (that's obvious). I see them letting Varitek go in favor of Shoppach and letting Nixon go in favor of whatever corner outfielder they can find for a small amount. Therefore, you can sign Pedro without much effort and you have Schilling and Foulke as well to give you a solid foundation to a pitching staff. This leaves you to fill the following spots:

RF
1B
2B I would bring back Bellhorn myself but you could move Mueller to second and start Youkilis at third to save a little bit of cash

SP I'm assuming Lowe will also be let go
SP Kim never quite made it as a starter. Do you trust Bronson Arroyo?

Then you have to decide whether or not you want to bring back Timlin, Embree, and Williamson.

[Thedatch]

I don't think Guitterez will be back next year (that's obvious). I see them letting Varitek go in favor of Shoppach and letting Nixon go in favor of whatever corner outfielder they can find for a small amount. Therefore, you can sign Pedro without much effort and you have Schilling and Foulke as well to give you a solid foundation to a pitching staff. This leaves you to fill the following spots:

RF
1B
2B I would bring back Bellhorn myself but you could move Mueller to second and start Youkilis at third to save a little bit of cash

SP I'm assuming Lowe will also be let go
SP Kim never quite made it as a starter. Do you trust Bronson Arroyo?

Then you have to decide whether or not you want to bring back Timlin, Embree, and Williamson.

i think we bring back a three of embree, timlin, and williamson. they are proven to do very well, they have only been overworked this year because we lacked the rest of the bullpen to pick them up when they were tired.

bronson arroyo is turning into a very good starter. he is having some trouble in the later innings, but that should change next year, when he can build some more stamina. i see him as a potential 3rd starter the way he has pitched this year. that would leave us with two starting pitcher spots to fill. i dunno who's gonna be out there, but...

i dont think nixon's going anywhere...he is still great, and not earning all that much money (he's not a FA yet is he?) also, schopach isn't ready for the big leagues yet. we will need another catcher if we're gonna let tek go, and i dont think mirabelli fills the void. yeah, he's got 7 homers in limited action, but if you play him fulltime, he will struggle people will figure him out, as they are already beginning to do.

i like mueller at 2nd and youk at 3rd

[PissedPrincess]

Trot is gonna be hard to dump with all his injurires. Another MORONIC signing by Theo. Theo gave him 3 years at $8 mill each before this season.

I agree Tek is gone, Lowe is gone, Pedro will stay. But we'll dissect this next week when we are officially eliminated from post-season.

[Thedatch]

Trot is gonna be hard to dump with all his injurires. Another MORONIC signing by Theo. Theo gave him 3 years at $8 mill each before this season.

I agree Tek is gone, Lowe is gone, Pedro will stay. But we'll dissect this next week when we are officially eliminated from post-season.

all of this depends on which way theo wants to go...if he wasnt to rebuild, then yes, nixon, tek, lowe and everyone will be dumped. but he isnt going to rebuild. he could never do that in this town unless he wants to get shot 300 times in the head by all the red sox fans, collectively.

nixon only had those injuries this year, he will be better next year. varitek wants to stay here, and we need him here to help with all the pitchers. he stays. lowe is gone, goodbye, sayonara.

and princess, boy when you get hot, you really smoke dont you :thumbsup:

[PissedPrincess]

Datch, Theo doesn't give a crap what Sox fans feel. I predict he'll dump everyone next year, and sell the team. This group was in way over their heads.

[Thedatch]

Datch, Theo doesn't give a crap what Sox fans feel. I predict he'll dump everyone next year, and sell the team. This group was in way over their heads.

maybe they'll switch with frank mccourt. you know he wants to own the sox, hes from around here, and he will build his own stadium. that would be the best thing to happen to the sox!

[PissedPrincess]

:laff: No, it won't be MCourt. He owns the 1st place Dodgers. It will be some conglomerate again. This franchise is doomed for quite some time.

[rockin500]

mccourt doesnt have much money. he's had problems with his bills.

[Thedatch]

:laff: No, it won't be MCourt. He owns the 1st place Dodgers. It will be some conglomerate again. This franchise is doomed for quite some time.

look, if henry offered mccourt a swap, i know for sure that he would take it. a lot of people speculate that the only reason he bought the dodgers was so he could get henry to swap with him.dunno if thats true, but....i want mccourt

[PissedPrincess]

It is absolutely NOT true Datch. MCourt can in no way afford this team. He bought the Dodgers for a song. MLB would never allow a swap. Henry would love it, he'd make $500 million. :laff:

[rockin500]

look, if henry offered mccourt a swap, i know for sure that he would take it. a lot of people speculate that the only reason he bought the dodgers was so he could get henry to swap with him.dunno if thats true, but....i want mccourt
hell has a quicker chance of freezing over.

[Thedatch]

It is absolutely NOT true Datch. MCourt can in no way afford this team. He bought the Dodgers for a song. MLB would never allow a swap. Henry would love it, he'd make $500 million. :laff:

thank you, miss negativity, for crushing my dream :( i guess now im stuck with saying...and the red sox dont make it again for the rest of my life :crying2:

[PissedPrincess]

Sorry Datch. :( Didn't mean to crush your dreams. :crying2:

Go Pats?

[Thedatch]

Sorry Datch. :( Didn't mean to crush your dreams. :crying2:

Go Pats?

ahhhhh, there we go! man, why cant everything be more like the pats? the world would be a much better place.

oh! there is an article on bellichick in the new sports illustrated i wanted to read...about his life. gonna be great.

but it's alright. the sox are doomed, oh well. too bad.

go pats is right.

[PissedPrincess]

Look Datch, this doesn't mean you stop being a fan. All this suffering will pay off someday. Trust me.

The Pats used to be a joke. I suffered thru every year. Now, top to bottom, they are the best organization in the NFL.

Dreams do come true. :) :luvkiss:

[Thedatch]

Look Datch, this doesn't mean you stop being a fan. All this suffering will pay off someday. Trust me.

The Pats used to be a joke. I suffered thru every year. Now, top to bottom, they are the best organization in the NFL.

Dreams do come true. :) :luvkiss:

i know! you must have really suffered when the sox and the pats were sucking...sorry :(

and its impossible to stop being a fan. once you become a fan, there is no letting go, which is unfortunate i guess, but in a way its a good thing, cuz life shouldnt be that easy :D

[PissedPrincess]

All this suffering makes you strong. :)

Still pisses me off though. :angry:

[Thedatch]

All this suffering makes you strong. :)

Still pisses me off though. :angry:

i guess its kind of like...what dont kill you makes you stronger, or builds temperament or something.

the thing is, i dont mind having a bad team here, as long as i know that those players are young, and still learning, like the devil rays. when you have a bad team full of superstars, its like what the f*ck is wrong you you you f*cking morons?

thats why now im more pissed than i ever have been about the red sox.

[PissedPrincess]

Exactly. It's the dumb ass managing, and SEVERE underachieving that pisses us off. :angry:

[Thedatch]

yeah! see, we're normal afterall...

maybe, kinda sorta

[barzilla]

Don't give up on this season yet. It may be a longshot but I still believe in the Sox.

[rockin500]

i guess its kind of like...what dont kill you makes you stronger, or builds temperament or something.

the thing is, i dont mind having a bad team here, as long as i know that those players are young, and still learning, like the devil rays. when you have a bad team full of superstars, its like what the f*ck is wrong you you you f*cking morons?

thats why now im more pissed than i ever have been about the red sox.
exactimundo. thats the most irritating. :angry:

[PissedPrincess]

Don't give up on this season yet. It may be a longshot but I still believe in the Sox.

Yes, well, you also think Clemens is a good guy so..........

;)

[barzilla]

Hey, I think Clemens is about as good guy as Charles Barkley was when he came to Houston. He is one of those guys you love when he is with you and hate when you are facing him.