GaryMrMets
12-03-2004, 09:46 PM
http://www.yesnetwork.com/announcers/article.asp?article_id=302
Is Clemens the best of all-time?
http://www.yesnetwork.com/images/talent/small/pepe_head_sm.jpgBy Phil Pepe
Special to YES Network Online
November 10 2004
Roger Clemens' unprecedented seventh Cy Young award at age 42 is such a monumental accomplishment, it moved David Cone to suggest that the Rocket may be the best pitcher who ever threw a baseball.
While I respect Cone as a pitcher and an astute judge of his craft, and I admire Clemens as a physical marvel and applaud his magnificent career, I cannot in good conscience place him on so lofty a perch. Top five? Maybe. Top 10? Certainly. But No. 1 all time? I don't think so.
Recently, I was asked to select my choices for the top 20 pitchers of all time, a purely subjective exercise, for sure. Accordingly, I slotted Clemens No. 10, the highest placing among active pitchers: highest, in fact, of any pitcher active in the last 20 years.
Ahead of Clemens, I selected, in order: Sandy Koufax, Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, Warren Spahn, Christy Mathewson, Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton and Grover Cleveland Alexander.
You could make the argument that Clemens, with his 328 wins, 4,317 strikeouts and seven Cy Youngs, deserves to be bumped up a few notches, at least. But after long and careful deliberation, I rejected that temptation based on two facts, neither of which was in his control.
One, his entire career occurred when competition was watered down by the era of expansion and two, he has a comparatively low number of complete games simply because that's how it works in the modern game.
The choice of Sandy Koufax as the greatest pitcher of all-time may be questioned because he won only 165 major league games (one more than half as many as Clemens) and struck out only 2,396 batters (slightly more than half as many as Clemens). Koufax was the unwitting victim of a nonsensical rule in baseball at the time that sought to discourage wealthier teams from cornering the market on talent. It was decreed that a player signed for a bonus of at least $4,000 had to remain on the major league roster for two years, thereby taking up a valuable spot on a team's 25-man roster, and at the same time, depriving the young player of plying his trade in the minor leagues.
Koufax never pitched in the minors, and it took him three years to become a serviceable major league pitcher. Once he did, he was the most dominant pitcher of his time and he finished his career with what may be the greatest six-year stretch in history. In that span, he pitched three no-hitters and won three Cy Young awards (he might have won more, but in those days the award went to one pitcher in both leagues, not one in each league).
After the 1966 season, Koufax retired because of a chronic arthritic elbow. He was 30 years old and had just come off a season in which he won 27 games, pitched 27 complete games, 323 innings, five shutouts, struck out 317, had an ERA of 1.73 and won the Cy Young.
If 2004 was Clemens' last year, he will have bowed out with 18 wins, no complete games, 214 1/3 innings, no shutouts, 218 strikeouts, an ERA of 2.98 and a seventh Cy Young; all that at age 41. In an effort to draw a better comparison between Koufax and Clemens, let's examine the best six consecutive seasons of their respective careers.
For Koufax, it's 1961-66, at age 25-30. For Clemens, we go back to 1986-91, at age 23-28.
CATEGORY KOUFAX CLEMENS
Total Wins 129 118
Average Wins Per Season 21.5 19.7
Innings 1,632 2/3 1,552 2/3
Average Innings Per Season 272 1/3 258 2/3
Complete Games 115 70
Average CG Per Season 19.2 11.7
Strikeouts 1713 1465
Average Strikeouts Per Season 285.5 244.2
Shutouts 35 27
Average Shutouts Per Season 5.8 4.5
ERA 2.19 2.70
The conclusion from the above, if one can be drawn, is that Clemens' advantage over Koufax is in his longevity and his cumulative statistics. Koufax's advantage over Clemens is in his short-term dominance. However, both belong on any list of the top 10 pitchers of all time, regardless of where you place them.
Acclaimed author Phil Pepe is a regular contributor to YES Network Online. Phil's latest book, "Unhittable: Reliving the Magic and Drama of Baseball's Best-Pitched Games," published by Triumph Books, is in stores now.
Is Clemens the best of all-time?
http://www.yesnetwork.com/images/talent/small/pepe_head_sm.jpgBy Phil Pepe
Special to YES Network Online
November 10 2004
Roger Clemens' unprecedented seventh Cy Young award at age 42 is such a monumental accomplishment, it moved David Cone to suggest that the Rocket may be the best pitcher who ever threw a baseball.
While I respect Cone as a pitcher and an astute judge of his craft, and I admire Clemens as a physical marvel and applaud his magnificent career, I cannot in good conscience place him on so lofty a perch. Top five? Maybe. Top 10? Certainly. But No. 1 all time? I don't think so.
Recently, I was asked to select my choices for the top 20 pitchers of all time, a purely subjective exercise, for sure. Accordingly, I slotted Clemens No. 10, the highest placing among active pitchers: highest, in fact, of any pitcher active in the last 20 years.
Ahead of Clemens, I selected, in order: Sandy Koufax, Walter Johnson, Bob Feller, Warren Spahn, Christy Mathewson, Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton and Grover Cleveland Alexander.
You could make the argument that Clemens, with his 328 wins, 4,317 strikeouts and seven Cy Youngs, deserves to be bumped up a few notches, at least. But after long and careful deliberation, I rejected that temptation based on two facts, neither of which was in his control.
One, his entire career occurred when competition was watered down by the era of expansion and two, he has a comparatively low number of complete games simply because that's how it works in the modern game.
The choice of Sandy Koufax as the greatest pitcher of all-time may be questioned because he won only 165 major league games (one more than half as many as Clemens) and struck out only 2,396 batters (slightly more than half as many as Clemens). Koufax was the unwitting victim of a nonsensical rule in baseball at the time that sought to discourage wealthier teams from cornering the market on talent. It was decreed that a player signed for a bonus of at least $4,000 had to remain on the major league roster for two years, thereby taking up a valuable spot on a team's 25-man roster, and at the same time, depriving the young player of plying his trade in the minor leagues.
Koufax never pitched in the minors, and it took him three years to become a serviceable major league pitcher. Once he did, he was the most dominant pitcher of his time and he finished his career with what may be the greatest six-year stretch in history. In that span, he pitched three no-hitters and won three Cy Young awards (he might have won more, but in those days the award went to one pitcher in both leagues, not one in each league).
After the 1966 season, Koufax retired because of a chronic arthritic elbow. He was 30 years old and had just come off a season in which he won 27 games, pitched 27 complete games, 323 innings, five shutouts, struck out 317, had an ERA of 1.73 and won the Cy Young.
If 2004 was Clemens' last year, he will have bowed out with 18 wins, no complete games, 214 1/3 innings, no shutouts, 218 strikeouts, an ERA of 2.98 and a seventh Cy Young; all that at age 41. In an effort to draw a better comparison between Koufax and Clemens, let's examine the best six consecutive seasons of their respective careers.
For Koufax, it's 1961-66, at age 25-30. For Clemens, we go back to 1986-91, at age 23-28.
CATEGORY KOUFAX CLEMENS
Total Wins 129 118
Average Wins Per Season 21.5 19.7
Innings 1,632 2/3 1,552 2/3
Average Innings Per Season 272 1/3 258 2/3
Complete Games 115 70
Average CG Per Season 19.2 11.7
Strikeouts 1713 1465
Average Strikeouts Per Season 285.5 244.2
Shutouts 35 27
Average Shutouts Per Season 5.8 4.5
ERA 2.19 2.70
The conclusion from the above, if one can be drawn, is that Clemens' advantage over Koufax is in his longevity and his cumulative statistics. Koufax's advantage over Clemens is in his short-term dominance. However, both belong on any list of the top 10 pitchers of all time, regardless of where you place them.
Acclaimed author Phil Pepe is a regular contributor to YES Network Online. Phil's latest book, "Unhittable: Reliving the Magic and Drama of Baseball's Best-Pitched Games," published by Triumph Books, is in stores now.