Temperature rises over 400%!!

[Rockin Robin]

At 9 am this morning, my local temperature was 5 degrees. It's now 21 degrees, and had gone as high as 25 earlier this evening. So that's over a 400% increase in temperature. Whoa.

And on the subject, Dan, Dan, please explain (in terms we can all understand) what it actually means when someone says "It's too cold to snow." Is that fact or fiction? If true, how could it bee too cold to snow?? Thanks. :luvkiss:

[rockin500]

I know I am not dan, but you get more snow when its near 25-32 usually, because the air can hold more moisture. When the temperature is near zero, the atmosphere cant hold nearly as much moisture, so its not going to dump as much when it does let loose.

BTW, a temperature from 5 degrees to 21 degrees farenheit is only a 3.256% increase in temperature.

[BPBlueSox]

Yeah, Ray's pretty much on the ball there with his response. You're more likely to get other types of frozen precipitation as it gets colder as well, like ice crystals.

[rockin500]

Yeah, Ray's pretty much on the ball there with his response. You're more likely to get other types of frozen precipitation as it gets colder as well, like ice crystals.
i almost decided to go into weather until Purdue or Madison didnt accept me. and i still keep myself as up to date as i can on the stuff.

ice crystals hurt! :D

[645]

Yeah, Ray's pretty much on the ball there with his response. You're more likely to get other types of frozen precipitation as it gets colder as well, like ice crystals.

I belive that is wrong.

You see, It's my understanding that it always start as snow and on the way down if it meets a temp over 32 then it turn to rain and you can only get ice when it meets a temp over 32 to turn it to rain and then to meet a temp under 32 to freeze the rain.

[rockin500]

not necessarily. you can get snow up to a temperature of about 36 or 37 in certain conditions.

are you talking about if it snows at 0 or the ice crystals? I'm not overly familar with ice storms, so i cant tell you what temperature they do.

i just know that my car is hard to start when its near zero! :D

[BPBlueSox]

I belive that is wrong.

You see, It's my understanding that it always start as snow and on the way down if it meets a temp over 32 then it turn to rain and you can only get ice when it meets a temp over 32 to turn it to rain and then to meet a temp under 32 to freeze the rain.

Nope. That's wrong.

[BPBlueSox]

http://www.agu.org/revgeophys/rasmus00/node10.html

[BPBlueSox]

i almost decided to go into weather until Purdue or Madison didnt accept me. and i still keep myself as up to date as i can on the stuff.


Well, that sucks. Purdue and Wisconsin aren't the easiest schools in the world to get into. Where did you end up going to school anyways?

[645]

I don't claim to be an expert. I'm not a weather man and I would think you are not too. So we can discuss the issue but we can't know all of the little details of the issue.

All I know is that snow needs a given temperature to keep it from milting. I would think it would be the temperature of freezing and yes I do admite I could be wrong on the temperature becouse I'm not an expert but I'm can't wrong on the fact that snow does milt at a given temperature and that ice is frozen water witch mean rain that has frozen.

[imgreat95]

I don't claim to be an expert. I'm not a weather man and I would think you are not too. So we can discuss the issue but we can't know all of the little details of the issue.




umm.. dude... he IS a weatherman....

[645]

Well, Then Me and my Big Mouth. :lmao:

[BPBlueSox]

Ice crystals are a totally different phenomenon that occur at very cold temperatures. That's what I was initally referring to, to begin with, by the way. Nothing to do with anything around the freezing mark.

[BPBlueSox]

I don't claim to be an expert. I'm not a weather man and I would think you are not too. So we can discuss the issue but we can't know all of the little details of the issue.

Oh, and I don't think you're really a Brewers fan. :)

[metsfan001]

At 9 am this morning, my local temperature was 5 degrees. It's now 21 degrees, and had gone as high as 25 earlier this evening. So that's over a 400% increase in temperature. Whoa.

And on the subject, Dan, Dan, please explain (in terms we can all understand) what it actually means when someone says "It's too cold to snow." Is that fact or fiction? If true, how could it bee too cold to snow?? Thanks. :luvkiss:

In Celsius, it's actually a 60.708% decrease in temperature. :D

[BPBlueSox]

All I know is that snow needs a given temperature to keep it from milting. I would think it would be the temperature of freezing and yes I do admite I could be wrong on the temperature becouse I'm not an expert but I'm can't wrong on the fact that snow does milt at a given temperature and that ice is frozen water witch mean rain that has frozen.

and while this is somewhat true about snow melting at a certain temperature, there a few factors this depends on. First, you have to take into account the mass of the substance and the surrounding pressure for the temperatures for the 'snow' to melt. All part of that pv=nRT equation that is applied. This may be right at 32, or somewhat lower, or somewhat higher.

Also, when it comes to what is hitting the ground, it depends on the temperatures throughout the layer of air that the droplet is trying to fall through. An entire layer or most of a layer below freezing will result in all snow. A layer that has a warm inversion in it will result in the 'snow' melting, and then refreezing, with freezing rain the result. And so on....

The whole thing that was initially adressed was about it being too cold to snow. This is right, in a sense, but very rarely happens over the United States. At a certain temperature area, like 0F or something, or below, ice crystals will not grow and will stay in the formation of an ice crystal as it falls all the way to the ground. However, this does not happen very often over the US, as it may be below zero at the ground level, but throughout the entire layer of air that the crystal is travelling from, most of the time there are warm air inversions that are still above the zero level, and the ice crystal will grow and smooth out into 'snow'. At more northern places, like the Yukon territory and such, ice crystals happen more often as they have colder air throughout the entire layer of air. That's why there is more snow over the Northern U.S. and southern Canada than over Northern Canada. (Well, that's not the only reason, but the majority one)
Hope, that shed a little bit of light on this... :)

[PissedPrincess]

MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!!! :angry: HOW THE HELL AM I GONNA GET TO THE LIQUOR STORE?

[BPBlueSox]

Your liquor stores are open on Sunday? Must be nice!

Doesn't look like it's gonna be stopping for a little while still, Jaq. Sorry. :(

[PissedPrincess]

They sure are! Guess I'm walking. It's only about a mile and a half.

[BPBlueSox]

Blast! I have no liquor for the game! Blast!

Looks like Coke for me. :(

[Blue56]

coke is good :D
Can't wait till the pats game.
It's freezing over here brrr!

[PissedPrincess]

A bunch of us always watch the game together at my buddies house. About a 3 mile walk. :( Not possible to drive. Our streets are obliterated.

Gonna be a loooong walk.

[BPBlueSox]

A 3 mile walk in all of that snow? You're gonna need a drink after that! When we had our 40" blizzard a few springs ago, I walked halfway down the street and thought I was going to die! (and I'm in pretty good shape!)

[Blue56]

that sucks!!!

[rockin500]

I'm going to a bar to watch tonights game. :)

i went to UW-milwaukee (and into engineering)

and metsfan001, its not a 60 % decrease!! Celsius is a relative scale (as is fahrenheit). If you really want to see how much the temperature changed, you have to convert to Kelvin or Rankin scale.

[metmagic]

A 3 mile walk in all of that snow? You're gonna need a drink after that! When we had our 40" blizzard a few springs ago, I walked halfway down the street and thought I was going to die! (and I'm in pretty good shape!)

omg that was me yesterday! :D i walked like half a mile from my class to my apt and it reminded me of running on the beach wearing 50 lbs of wet clothing plus heavy snow on my head :D i was totally out of breath when i got home! whatta workout!

today looks to be a bit more challenging..... :devilsmok

[BPBlueSox]

I would go to a bar, but I get too out of control...so that's not really an option. :D

Engineering surely ain't easy, did you have to minor in math or anything?

And you're spot on with the relative scale thing, K and Rankin are the only true scales. Thanks for the reminder. ;) Hell, it's 293 K here right now in reality. :)

[BPBlueSox]

Oh, wait, 293.16 K if I want to be technical about it. :)

[rockin500]

I would go to a bar, but I get too out of control...so that's not really an option. :D

Engineering surely ain't easy, did you have to minor in math or anything?

And you're spot on with the relative scale thing, K and Rankin are the only true scales. Thanks for the reminder. ;) Hell, it's 293 K here right now in reality. :)
no minor in math as i think they realized that we had so much on our plate with engineering classes and such so we didnt require a minor.

But 4 semesters of calculus, one semester of trig, and one semester of statistics. i think there was only another 3 classes required for a math minor. but i was too lazy. :D

[BPBlueSox]

4 semesters of clac, one of trig, and of stats? That seems like almost enough to me!

I had/have (seeing as I'm almost done) 3 semesters of calc (they shoved the 4 into 3 here), one of stats, and one of differential equations...oh and a semester of precalc/trig/junk. That qualifies as a math minor here. :)

You had to take all of the fun physics classes and stuff I bet... blah!

[rockin500]

physics effin sucks. especially when the professor doesnt speak english very well.

[BPBlueSox]

Yeah, the chem class I had to take was with some woman from france or something that spoke english horribly.

I had Gen Physics I and II with the labs. Luckily nothing more. :)

[rockin500]

i had physics for engineers I and II. too much calculus for my taste. i didnt like the electrical part of physics. no labs for it though. lucky the TA's spoke english

chemistry was even worse because a) the professors sucked and b) all the TA's were chinese.

[BPBlueSox]

Yeah, I had to only take general chem which was somewhat of a repeat of the chem I took in high school. That was nice, got an A.

I think the Physics I had was somewhat similar to a Physics for Engineering because it was chalk-full of calculus, and most everyone in my class were Engineering majors. Damn, that shit was hard.

[Rockin Robin]

and while this is somewhat true about snow melting at a certain temperature, there a few factors this depends on. First, you have to take into account the mass of the substance and the surrounding pressure for the temperatures for the 'snow' to melt. All part of that pv=nRT equation that is applied. This may be right at 32, or somewhat lower, or somewhat higher.

Also, when it comes to what is hitting the ground, it depends on the temperatures throughout the layer of air that the droplet is trying to fall through. An entire layer or most of a layer below freezing will result in all snow. A layer that has a warm inversion in it will result in the 'snow' melting, and then refreezing, with freezing rain the result. And so on....

The whole thing that was initially adressed was about it being too cold to snow. This is right, in a sense, but very rarely happens over the United States. At a certain temperature area, like 0F or something, or below, ice crystals will not grow and will stay in the formation of an ice crystal as it falls all the way to the ground. However, this does not happen very often over the US, as it may be below zero at the ground level, but throughout the entire layer of air that the crystal is travelling from, most of the time there are warm air inversions that are still above the zero level, and the ice crystal will grow and smooth out into 'snow'. At more northern places, like the Yukon territory and such, ice crystals happen more often as they have colder air throughout the entire layer of air. That's why there is more snow over the Northern U.S. and southern Canada than over Northern Canada. (Well, that's not the only reason, but the majority one)
Hope, that shed a little bit of light on this... :)

Yes, that did help. Thank you.


Physics....calc.....chem.....my head wants to explode!!

[rockin500]

Yes, that did help. Thank you.


Physics....calc.....chem.....my head wants to explode!!
come now, its not THAT difficulT!

[645]

BPBlueSox,

I am sorry. I'm always going full blown and doing a tone of things all at once and little things like the possablty that I was talking to an expect never cross my mind. So I hope you don't take anything by it becouse it's thing like that offen get by me and I didn't mean to get you upset.

Although what I said wasn't wrong. I saw it on TV once. Although very long time ago, Sure I have forgeten the importent facts about it but on the general idea it is basicly right although I may not be as good as you at explaining it.

So peace alright.

[BPBlueSox]

No, no, I wasn't going after you, 645. I hope you don't think that's what I was going for. When I did all of that 'splaining, that was all for Robin. I have no beef with you. :)

[645]

Alright, I understand that.

That's what we all do here. put our own spin on it.

[Durango53]

I was in Alaska for 3 years and I saw it snow all the time at -20 or above that.... Now it might have been soft ice crystals and up there weird stuff will happen.

[BPBlueSox]

Like I said, it could be warmer throughout other parts of the atmosphere where the ice crystals could have grown. I forget the exact number where growing doesn't take place anymore, but I think it's somehwere around zero. Just cause it's -20 at the ground, it could be above zero a couple thousand feet up.

[Durango53]

Ya I dont know crap about that but I to always knew that it couldnt snow when it got to a temp so when I got to Alaska and it was snowing at -20 I was all well that shoots that thing all to hell... ;)

But what you said makes sense Dan....

[BPBlueSox]

http://www.rap.ucar.edu/weather/upper/dnr.gif

Example: Near the surface, temperature is around 0 C. A couple thousand feet up, the temperature is around 10 C. That's almost a twenty degree difference on a day where there isn't even that strong of an inversion. :)

[Thedatch]

http://www.rap.ucar.edu/weather/upper/dnr.gif

Example: Near the surface, temperature is around 0 C. A couple thousand feet up, the temperature is around 10 C. That's almost a twenty degree difference on a day where there isn't even that strong of an inversion. :)

0 degrees C... 10 degrees C...20 degree difference? i'm soooo confused!! I mean, im not at all a science guy, but this is going so far over my head...:)