The Subway Series and Interleague Play has lost its luster

[Timberwolf]

I see the NY media is hyping the Subway Series as the event of the year in NY Sports. The Post and the NY Daily News did like 10 pages on the weekend matchups in Thursday's papers and I am sure there will be a lot more this entire weekend. Heck they cover a lot of it this entire week. I guess the media and Mets fans are the only one who seem excited about the Subway Series because I have sense a lack of enthauism on the Subway Series from players to Yankee fans to sports radio.

The Subway Series hasn't been much appealing in the last few years. I think ever since the World Series between the Mets and Yankees in 2000, the matchups has never been the same. Mets became really bad since then and the Yankees normally dominated them. It wasn't even close. Yeah the Mets swept the Yankees, but I doubt the Yankees took them seriously then. Let's face it. The Yankees don't even take the Mets seriously. Yankees fans don't even get obessed with the Mets the way Mets fans are obessed with the Yankees. Yankees and Yankees fans view the Mets as an exhibition game and nothing more. I agree with them. The Subway Series means nothing just like how these crosstown series in other cities especially the White Sox/ Cubs means nothing other than for fans who need to have their self-esteem increase. These players don't get caught up with that stuff and rightfully so. It does not mean much in the standings. The only reason both teams even agree on crosstown rivalry is because they want to make money out of suckers err fans.

This bring me to the next point which is interleague play. Has anyone had enough with interleague play? I sure had enough of interleague play. It was great when it first started, but the novelty has worn out. It was great seeing different NL team and different AL/NL matchups, but now it just have zero meaning. I really hope MLB end this farce next year and get back to what it was with no interleague play. I like to see more matchups with AL East vs. AL West or NL East vs. NL West. Plus it pisses me off that the White Sox will play a creampuff schedule in interleague while the Twins are on the road to go play the tough NL West teams.

I just think the interleague play and the crosstown series has ran its course especially the Subway Series.

[elfudge35]

I completely disagree, while interleague play has its dogs (ie Arizona vs Detroit), it still gets people excited, you get to see matchups you would never see otherwise, and what games are sold out first? Yankees vs Mets, all of the good interleague matchups sell out immediately, which tells me there is plenty of gusto in interleague, the most anticipated game of the year besides opening day Yankees/Red Sox is the upcoming Pedro vs Pavano matchup on Sunday.

[Timberwolf]

Getting people excited? Most anticipated game of the year? I haven't heard much buzz on sports radio at all or in the city yesterday. The Mets are a mediocre club at best. Nothing to write home about even though I think Willie Randolph has done a great job getting his team prepared to play every game. The papers will always hype up this Subway Series, but it means nothing because NY papers hype everything up. You got Jeter and Posada going out of their way saying that the Subway Series should end. Read this article from today's Newsday:

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseb...y-yankees-print

Big deal if fans sell out the joint. I want to see great games. Fans coming to Shea and Yankee to sell out the Subway Series means nothing to me. I want to see great games now blowouts as you see in the Subway Series.

It was a good novelty for the first three years, but I think that become as expired like a milk from a refrigrator. Maybe this year or next year's Subway Series will be different, but I just think it has lost its meaning.

The only way the Subway Series or any crosstown series in this country will have any meaning is when baseball abolishes the AL and NL altogether and just create a division via region like Atlantic, Midwest, and Pacific. You can have both teams in the same city in one division and then it would have meaning

[Thedatch]

you can't always get great games...I mean, sure it would be fun to have the sox and yanks play 162 games, but even that gets boring after about 10 games. interleague play is fun, because, as Elfudge said, you get to see matchups you otherwise do not get a chance to see. For example, The sox play atlanta this weekend, and two of the matchups are with Hudson and Smoltz, two of Altanta's best pitchers, and two of the league's best pitchers. Those matchups would never happen if there was no interleague.

And why the heck is this such a big deal? Sure the media hypes all this stuff up, but that's their job. If you don't like interleague play, or the concept, then just see it as just another game...are you so horribly offended by watching an AL team play an NL team or vice versa that you refuse to watch the game? of course not. Just sit down, shut up, and watch a baseball game!

[Timberwolf]

Thedatch: I want to see the Twins play the Red Sox, Yankees, Angels, Rangers, Blue Jays, A's, and Mariners more times. That's what I was trying to mean. Please reread the first post of this thread ten times to know what the hell I am talking about. Fans in Minnesota get cheated not seeing the Red Sox and Yankees as much as they used to. Red Sox and the Yankees come to Minneapolis only ONCE a year and while the Twins come to Fenway or Yankee Stadium once a year. You can say the same for other AL Cities in the Midwest and in the West Coast.

I am also very annoyed that the White Sox play the little sisters of the poor in the NL this year while the Twins are on the road out in the West Coast. Does that make sense to you? As a Twins fan, I am very outraged about it and I know Ron Gardenhire is very furious about it. That's another reason why I hate the Interleague matchups. It's just not fair that the White Sox are playing very easy teams while the Twins are getting tough teams in the NL West.

Interleague play is fun? What is so fun about it? Seeing different teams and different players in the NL. Is that the big deal you are citing? That means nothing. They are just different players. I am not here to watch individual players when I watch sports. I am here to watch two great teams and that's something you never see in interleague.

The media hypes this stuff because they got nothing better to do. It's a shame that writers needs to go make a name out of themselves by making up stories and stuff rather than report the story. That's the problem with the American media.

I am horribly offended that I live in New Jersey in which the NY media and Mets fans want to think the Subway Series is the be all and end all of baseball. It isn't hence why I spoke my outrage in this thread. The Subway Series may be the most overrated series in America. Mets vs. Yankees are so dull that I rather watch paint dry. These games are blowouts all the time with the Yankees having the final say. What is so fun about it? Yankees fans don't even take the Mets seriously and they don't get fired up. That's good enough for me to think Subway Series has lost its luster. Players don't even get fired up for crosstown rivalries and interleague series so why should I give a damn. Even Woody Paige thinks the Subway Series is overrated.

Interleague is nothing more than exhibition games and that's the way it will always be. If MLB wants to make these crosstown rivalries into legit games, dump the AL and NL format.

Now that I am done responding to you, I gotta go eat dinner and then get ready for that great Twins/Brewers game for "braggin rights" in the border rivalry of Wisconsin and Minnesota.

[Royce]

Let's face it. The Yankees don't even take the Mets seriously. Yankees fans don't even get obessed with the Mets the way Mets fans are obessed with the Yankees. Yankees and Yankees fans view the Mets as an exhibition game and nothing more


Yes, Yankees fans could careless about what the Mets do rather then Mets fans praying that they Yankees lose. But, an exibition game? No way. I'd rather lose to the Red Sox then the Mets. I don't know about you, but the Subway Series is REALLY exciting in New York. And I'm going to love to see Pedro have to go to the plate against the Yankees, so if he pulls crap like he always did hitting Yankees intentionally, he can get drilled.

[Thedatch]

Yes, Yankees fans could careless about what the Mets do rather then Mets fans praying that they Yankees lose. But, an exibition game? No way. I'd rather lose to the Red Sox then the Mets. I don't know about you, but the Subway Series is REALLY exciting in New York. And I'm going to love to see Pedro have to go to the plate against the Yankees, so if he pulls crap like he always did hitting Yankees intentionally, he can get drilled.

well there you go Timber...maybe the subway series aren't as exciting to you because you aren't a yankee or mets but a twins fan, but this yankee fan likes it...And I like watching other teams play. I get bored with 19 times of the devilrays, yankees, bluejays, and Orioles.

Two different sides of the discussion I suppose...

[PopTop]

The NYC sports media hypes everything! A Yankees-Mets series is actually something they should be hyping. As soon as the series is over, they'll go back to hyping things such as the Clemens trade rumors.

I've been a proponent of interleague play my whole dad-gum life. I still think it's a great thing, the so-called purists be damned! If purists, i.e., hard-ass people who are totally resistant to any change, always got things their way, I guess we'd still just have 16 teams and no team would be west of St. Louis. Gee, that would sure be a lot of pure fun :hmm:

But I do think something should be done to the schedule and the annual interleague rivalries should go away. It should be set up to playing one division from the other league each season, a 3-year rotation, in my opinion. And the reason it should be done that way is to make the schedules within each division more equal, not to rob New York or Chicago or Los Angeles or Oakland-San Fran or anyone of their intra-city matches.

But interleague play is good overall, just a scheduling snafu presently that I'd be glad to fix for MLB if they'd only ask :D

[elfudge35]

I haven't heard much buzz on sports radio at all or in the city yesterday.

I don't know, I listen to a little thing called ESPN Radio every day and Colin Cowherd, Dan Patrick and Eric Kuselias have talked about Mets-Yankees at great lengths for the past few days, Cowherd said Sunday's game is the most anticipated game of the year, I think that qualifies as buzz, and that's not just newsday trying to create something, that's on a national level, and the game is on right now, and I am anxious with every pitch, I understand it's different if you're not a fan of the teams, but Mets and Yankees fans are definately watching

[Timberwolf]

Yes, Yankees fans could careless about what the Mets do rather then Mets fans praying that they Yankees lose. But, an exibition game? No way. I'd rather lose to the Red Sox then the Mets. I don't know about you, but the Subway Series is REALLY exciting in New York. And I'm going to love to see Pedro have to go to the plate against the Yankees, so if he pulls crap like he always did hitting Yankees intentionally, he can get drilled.

I doubt Pedro is going to start any trouble in this series. I really don't see it happening. I will be shocked if it happens though. I for one hope it does not. He would be real stupid to do that. You do make a great point whether or not the Yankees pitchers will hit Pedro when he is batting. Now that's something I am interested to see, but I doubt that will happen either.

Yankees fans did not make a big deal about the sweep last year which is why I think Yankees fans do not have any vested interest in the Subway Series.

I looked at the crowd when I turned the game on a little bit tonight and I noticed empty orange seats.

My thing is if the players are not interested in this series, why should the fans care. It's an exhibition only because it's not going to affect either teams in the standings. If I am a Yankees fan, I hate losing to the Red Sox not to the Mets. Mets have no significiance in the standings. Yankees have bigger fish to fry than the Red Sox. George Steinbrenner said that he rather lose to the Mets than the Red Sox. That statement right there seems to me that the Subway Series does not hold any significance.

I would love to see crosstown series matter so that the players will actually do care and for that to happen, Selig needs to abolish the AL and NL just make it into regional divisions in which you can have two crosstown teams in the same division. Then the crosstown games will have meaning. Personally, I think it's time for both the AL and NL to be abolished.

[Timberwolf]

I don't know, I listen to a little thing called ESPN Radio every day and Colin Cowherd, Dan Patrick and Eric Kuselias have talked about Mets-Yankees at great lengths for the past few days, Cowherd said Sunday's game is the most anticipated game of the year, I think that qualifies as buzz, and that's not just newsday trying to create something, that's on a national level, and the game is on right now, and I am anxious with every pitch, I understand it's different if you're not a fan of the teams, but Mets and Yankees fans are definately watching

You really think Colin, Dan, and Eric are really interested? The only reason they are talking about the series nationally was because ESPN Radio has an affiliate here in NYC so they want to gain interest with the fans. Michael Kay clearly did not talk about the Mets in his show today. All he did was talk Yankees this entire show today.

I think Sunday's game is as buzz because of Pedro pitching as Royce said. Will the Yankees pitcher headhunt Pedro when he is batting? That's the only interesting thing for me. Also can Pedro beat the Yankees?

[Timberwolf]

.I get bored with 19 times of the devilrays, yankees, bluejays, and Orioles.

If you are going to want to watch the Red Sox play the Twins, Angels, A's, Rangers, White Sox a lot more, then interleague play needs to go. That's the only way it's going to work. Interleague play prevents us from watching different teams outside the division in the same league.

[Thedatch]

we get to see all those teams during the season, in interleague play we get to see teams we would otherwise never see, which is fun to me.

on an aside, Timber, it seems to me like you have a very difficult time either realizing that you've lost an argument, or, in this case, realizing that there are two different opinions on this topic that are not going to really change. This is strictly an opinion argument, and you cant really sway us with facts. I think it should stay, you think it should go. Let's just leave it at that

[treasurecoast1]

Interleague play had the effect of generating interest in baseball at a time when that was needed. I dislike the concept, but interleague play, in practice, while creating unbalanced schedules, DOES generate certain interesting matchups.

That said, the march to making MLB like the NBA is ruining baseball's uniqueness. Part of the allure of the World Series is that neither team had met each other during the regular season; that's gone now.

The separateness of the leagues, with balanced schedules, was something that made baseball different, and made the regular season valuble. The NBA's regular season is trivial; it means little, the playoffs are everything. If baseball gets to that point it will collapse; there will not be enough fan interest in the 162 games it needs to have in its regular season in order to generate enough revenue to financially make it.

[Baseball Guru]

I looked at the crowd when I turned the game on a little bit tonight and I noticed empty orange seats.



Well there couldnt have been too many empty seats as the Mets set an ALLTIME attendance record for a 3 game series at Shea:D

There were over 55,700 for every game this 3 game series...

Some games are great for interleague, some are not.. Simple as that.. Just like some AL & NL only games are great (Sox-Yanks), (Mets-Braves), etc and some are horrible (Rays-Royals), (Brewers-Pirates), etc...

I think interleague is ok?? Doesnt really bother me one way or the other.. I look forward to the Mets/Yankees games but if they didnt play EVERY year, I'd be ok with that as well.. Maybe they could alternate interleague every other year;)

[Royce]

Although I am infavor of interleague play, it does take away from the world series...then should be the first time and only time the best of the AL and NL meet.

[Rockin Robin]

I agree that Interleague play definitely takes away from the allure of the World Series. It absolutely should be teams that did not see each other during the year.

Yes, I do kind of like to see teams I normally would not see, but it's still not worth it to me. One weekend of local rivals to get fans in the seats and get a city excited about baseball. That's all it should be. Not a full month of interleague play.

So I vote to get rid of interleague play and get rid of the unbalanced schedule. Just about half the season is played against your own division. I miss the 80's when the Mets rivals were the Cubs and the Cardinals. Just seeing them in town for one series really sucks.

[Baseball Guru]

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050522&content_id=1059730&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Fan favorite returns with a bang over three days
By Mark Newman / MLB.com

It was a blockbuster box-office weekend that had ticket-counters scrambling for the record books. There were star wars galore, edge-of-your-seat action, plenty of good vs. evil, and the force was with you if first base was occupied.

Yes, Interleague Play was back.

One of the favorite times of year for many fans arrived with a bang, sharing an incredible weekend of entertainment with the "Revenge of the Sith" movie that demolished opening-weekend records. Major League Baseball is featuring a new twist in 2005 with three stretches of Interleague Play that began with three days of mostly regional rivalries, and all across the baseball galaxy, there was plenty to talk about.

Clubs return to the intraleague schedule Monday, with the next stretch of Interleague Play to begin on June 6. For now, here is a quick look back at 10 particular things that were learned when teams from the American and National leagues met again:

1. Interleague Play is still incredibly popular. The 42 Interleague games drew a total attendance of 1,527,898, an average of 36,379 per game that continued a year-by-year trend of attendance spikes. Among the highlights: A combined 167,493 fans for the Subway Series (55,831 average) -- a record for any three-game series in Shea Stadium history, dating back four-plus decades.

2. Watching Mets and Yankees fans uncomfortably seated close together is almost as much fun as watching their teams together on the field. The Subway Series is still very much a thriller as the attendance record suggests, and Hideki Matsui was the star of this one with key production as the Yanks wrapped two victories around that Mets victory on Saturday. The Yankees have now won five series in a row, 12 of their last 14 games, and have cut that nine-game AL East deficit in half.

3. There were some especially interesting developments in the AL West. The Angels were poised for a sweep of the Dodgers in a series that drew 162,013 (54,004 average) to Chavez Ravine, but Vlad Guerrero was injured in the Saturday game and is on the 15-day DL because of a partially dislocated left shoulder. Meanwhile, the Rangers heated up like the weather in Arlington -- near 100 degrees on the field Sunday -- and swept Houston to pull within 1 1/2 games of the Angels. And Oakland came in with the best record in Interleague history, but lost two of three to the Giants in the Bay Bridge Series, which attracted a three-game series record of 128,222 to SBC Park.

4. New faces played key roles. Prized prospect Kyle Davies got the start for Atlanta in the rotation void left by injured John Thomson, and in Saturday's victory at Boston he held the Red Sox scoreless the first five innings en route to the victory. "I don't think it's all even set in yet," said Davies, the first Atlanta starter to win a Major League debut since 1992. Brandon McCarthy made an outstanding pitching debut Sunday for the White Sox, leaving with a no-decision. And Joe Dillon, playing in just his second Major League game, delivered a pinch-homer with two outs in the eighth inning that lifted the Marlins to a 4-3 comeback win over the Devil Rays Saturday in Miami.

5. McCarthy's outing was nullified because that Chicago series ended with a Mark Prior complete game, and Cub fans have to hope the team will take that one and run with it as the schedule returns to intraleague action. The White Sox were threatening to sweep at the Friendly Confines, and seeing the South Siders holding the Majors' best record already has been an adjustment lately for fans on the North Side.

6. Tampa Bay was the darling of 2004 Interleague Play with that 15-3 record -- winning a franchise-record 12 in a row in that period -- but the Devil Rays enjoyed no such success in its series at Florida. The Marlins recorded their first three-game sweep of the season, and are now ahead of Atlanta in the NL East standings while reaching eight games above .500 for the first time in 2005.

"The guys are playing good," Marlins manager Jack McKeon said. "They are hitting the ball now -- at least in the clutch, they are. That's what we needed to get us going."

7. Don't look now, but the Diamondbacks finished the first Interleague stretch on top of the NL West in their continued bid for a worst-to-first season. They won two in Detroit behind gems by Brandon Webb and Javier Vazquez, and might have swept if not for Brian Bruney blowing a save with a lead in the 11th inning on Saturday. San Diego, meanwhile, saw its eight-game winning streak end with consecutive losses to finish the Seattle series, dropping a half-game behind Arizona.


8. Is everyone really appreciating what Johan Santana is doing out there? He has an astounding strikeouts/walks ratio of 83 to 8. That included 11 strikeouts and one walk in Sunday's 6-5, 11-inning victory to take the series from Milwaukee. Santana pitched 5 2/3 innings of no-hit ball, finishing with a no-decision to stay at 5-2 on the season.

9. The first stretch of Interleague Play was a complete success, at least in a manner of speaking. Remarkably, there were five complete games thrown on Sunday: Matt Clement, Cory Lidle, Mark Prior, Javier Vazquez and Aaron Sele. And the latter two pitched shutouts in the process. OK, maybe it's still not the age of Christy Mathewson and Walter Johnson, but that's not something you see every day.

10. Mark Mulder is looking like one of the best acquisitions of 2005, improving to 6-1 for the Cardinals and helping St. Louis win 2 of 3 at Kansas City. The Washington Nationals went back to Canada for the first time since they were the Montreal Expos -- playing in front of a smattering of their former faithful from Quebec -- and they avoided a sweep Sunday with a 9-2 victory. Cleveland won the Battle for Ohio on Sunday with a 9-2 victory in the rubber game, and at this rate, who knows whether Danny Graves will still be the Reds' closer when the next Interleague stretch arrives. "Right now it's just not working," he said after giving up five runs in the ninth.

Because there are 14 teams in the AL and 16 in the NL, there is always one intraleague series that must be scheduled during these Interleague stretches. The Rockies and Pirates played that role in the first round of 2005, and their Interleague fun looms ahead. Looks like Major League Baseball has its own trilogy this time.

Mark Newman is enterprise editor for MLB.com. Team reporters Mark Bowman, Anthony Castrovince and Joe Frisaro contributed to this story. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

[Timberwolf]

I agree that Interleague play definitely takes away from the allure of the World Series. It absolutely should be teams that did not see each other during the year.

Yes, I do kind of like to see teams I normally would not see, but it's still not worth it to me. One weekend of local rivals to get fans in the seats and get a city excited about baseball. That's all it should be. Not a full month of interleague play.

So I vote to get rid of interleague play and get rid of the unbalanced schedule. Just about half the season is played against your own division. I miss the 80's when the Mets rivals were the Cubs and the Cardinals. Just seeing them in town for one series really sucks.


I LOVE YOU

That was a great post. In fact, that's the best post you ever wrote of all the great posts and probably the best post someone at this board wrote in my time here.

[Rockin Robin]

Whoa. Down boy.


(but thanks)

[elfudge35]

The only reason he got so excited is that you're basically the only person that has agreed with him at all. And it's kind of sad, since the only thing that you agreed with him with was that you don't want interleague play. That's just an opinion and I don't think anybody who has posted in this thread has any problem whatsoever with somebody having an opinion on interleague play. What he can't see is that we have a problem with him saying that interleague play is despicable and has no worth whatsoever and that everybody hates it and fans everywhere are fed up with it. I have never said that interleague play is the best thing to happen to baseball. I just like seeing Mets-Yankees and I'm sure all Mets and Yankees fans agree. I really don't have any use for Mets-Mariners though. I'm all for cutting back on interleague play and keeping it to rivalries, but abolishing it completely? I just don't agree. But you are entitled to your own opinion.