What grade would you give Joe Torre at the halway point of the baseball season?

[GaryMrMets]

http://images.viacomlocalnetworks.com/images_image_330165828

It's mid season. What grade would you give Joe Torre at the halway point of the baseball season?
A
B
C
D
F

[Royce]

D+


This guy has no idea of how to manufacture a run. He NEVER sac bunts, unless it's Jeter, who I'd rather see hit. He or his other coaches need to teach these rookies how to bunt (Cano, my only problem with Robi) and how to play centerfield (Melky).

And his calls to the bullpen are ridiculous. Stanton against Roberts, why don't we forfeit next time. Finally he can't keep on going to Quantrill cause he was finally unloaded.


Overall, Joe Torre is a terrible manager.

[milky_way]

Torre is an excellent clubhouse manager, probably the best in the majors, and a very poor in-game manager.

I have no problem with him rarely bunting, but the bullpen management is horrible. He's riding Sturtze and Gordon into the ground the same way he rode Q and Gordon last year. And there's really no logical explanation to Womack batting in the 2-spot for months.

I would give him a C-, bumped up from a D because it looks like he's finally got the team to click.

[rockin500]

Torre is an excellent clubhouse manager, probably the best in the majors, and a very poor in-game manager.

I have no problem with him rarely bunting, but the bullpen management is horrible. He's riding Sturtze and Gordon into the ground the same way he rode Q and Gordon last year. And there's really no logical explanation to Womack batting in the 2-spot for months.

I would give him a C-, bumped up from a D because it looks like he's finally got the team to click.
funny. thats the same thing that is said about baker. excellent clubhouse guy and gets the most out of his bench guys. unfortunately doesnt do well with ingame decisions all that often.

I'd probably give Torre a C- as he had a very brutal stretch for awhile, but he did seem to find things.

[PissedPrincess]

I'd give Torre a B. It's not his fault $200 million underachieves.

[RockDog]

I give him a C.

I'd like to see him be more aggressive...more stolen base attempts, sac bunting, brushing back batters...

I agree that he's a good clubhouse guy. The players all seem to enjoy playing for him, but this year they lack that spark that they have had in previous years. It's more common in the last few weeks, but prior to that during the game everyone is sitting there like bumps on a log. I know that's not just Joe's fault, maybe Jeter or someone else on the team has to step up and help put the fire back into them.

Overall, good job with room for improvement.

[Plastic Bat]

C-

Totally aggre with RockDog

[Kiwideus]

For right now, I give him a D

Joe Torre is a great manager in the majors. He just need to make some adjustments especially in the bullpen.

Hitters are impressive and Giambi are getting there :thumbsup:

Make Jeter, Cano, and Melky to bunt, sac fly, etc anything possible to produce runs, play really smart like the Braves under Bobby Cox. They like to play smart and we need to do something like that.

I would like to see little more in Jeter, over .300 B.A., possible 200+ Hits, 120 runs, 50 doubles, etc. something like that.

So far, the team is getting better gradually and if they continue to get better in the 2nd half, I will bump from D to C or B.

[Durango53]

I'd give Torre a B. It's not his fault $200 million underachieves.
Exactly............

What do you think Sheff would say if he was asked to lay down a sac bunt? This team isnt built to bunt and run it is built for just power. And power takes days off and heck it might take some time off. You got to have a mix of players.

What would George say if this team started to lay down bunts?

[Royce]

What do you think Sheff would say if he was asked to lay down a sac bunt?

Okay, that's just ridiculous. Who would ask Sheffield to bunt? I'm talking about Cano, Womack, Posada, Flahrety, Bernie, Jeter...not A-Rod, Sheffield, Giambi and such.

Answering you question, he'd probably say something to the extent of "Are you kidding me?"

What would George say if this team started to lay down bunts?

I think he'd say "Hey! Bunting wins games, and that's what I built this team to do!" 1st and 2nd against the Indians in the 9th, down by 1, zero out, Cano up. No reason to take the bunt off. He HAS to get it down, and if he can't TEACH HIM HOW. What do you know, Torre takes it off, double play. Game over next batter, instead of 2nd and 3rd 1 out with Sheffield coming up, followed by an intentional walk comes A-Rod who I'd take my chances with in hitting a sac fly or a hard ground ball through a pulled in infield.

Make Jeter, Cano, and Melky to bunt, sac fly, etc anything possible to produce runs, play really smart like the Braves under Bobby Cox. They like to play smart and we need to do something like that.

EXACTLY. I LOVE BOBBY COX. He's a great manager.

[milky_way]

Okay, that's just ridiculous. Who would ask Sheffield to bunt? I'm talking about Cano, Womack, Posada, Flahrety, Bernie, Jeter...not A-Rod, Sheffield, Giambi and such.
Womack and Flaherty should bunt, simply because they are the offensive equivalent of a pitcher.

Cano, Posada, Bernie, and Jeter should never bunt.

I think he'd say "Hey! Bunting wins games, and that's what I built this team to do!" 1st and 2nd against the Indians in the 9th, down by 1, zero out, Cano up. No reason to take the bunt off. He HAS to get it down, and if he can't TEACH HIM HOW. What do you know, Torre takes it off, double play. Game over next batter, instead of 2nd and 3rd 1 out with Sheffield coming up, followed by an intentional walk comes A-Rod who I'd take my chances with in hitting a sac fly or a hard ground ball through a pulled in infield.

I agree with Durango, this team was not built to bunt its way to the World Series. It was built to bomb its way there, and bunting is just giving away outs.

I mentioned it in another thread before, but I have no problem with Torre taking off the bunt with Cano up. He was playing it by the numbers, and the numbers say that you can expect more runs with runners on first and second no outs than with runners on second and third one out. Cano just cannot ground into a double play in that situation. Fault = Cano.

[rockin500]

wrong, cano should always be willing to bunt. He's the typical player who should have no problem with bunting. bunting doesnt always have to be for sacrafices. If you know how to do it properly, you'll often get a base hit out of it. and no its not giving up outs. having your #2 hitter ground into double plays is giving up outs.

[rockin500]

BTW, i dont see jim edmonds having a problem bunting when he is called on to do it. granted, he doesnt do it often, but he will lay one up there if the defense is willing to give it to him.

[Royce]

having your #2 hitter ground into double plays is giving up outs.


Exactly, if anyone in your lineup can bunt, it's your #2 batter.



And Jeter has bunted a decent amount this season and he ALWAYS gets it down. I'm sure he'd like to hit, but he does what's best for the team. And Posada can't hit for sh**. If the right situation presents itself, why not make him bunt? 1st and 2nd no outs, I think you have to bunt in a close game most of the time. That is, unless you have A-Rod, Sheff, Matsui, Giambi up, and maybe even Jeter, but I know Jeter enjoys doing the little things right and would even bunt in that situation. The only thing better then 2nd and 3rd 1 out is 2nd and 3rd no out or basesloaded 1/0 outs. All it takes is a marginally deep fly ball to score a much needed run or even a ground ball in some cases. And, a basehit scores 2.

[rockin500]

yup. there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for your #2 batter to not be able to lay down a bunt any time he is called to.

While i dont exactly like bunting 1st and 2nd to 2nd and 3rd, if he knows what he is doing, there is a very good chance to beat it out to make it bases loaded. that way, a single scores 2, a wild pitch scores one, a medium deep ball will score one.

why do you think the white sox are where they are right now?

[milky_way]

wrong, cano should always be willing to bunt. He's the typical player who should have no problem with bunting. bunting doesnt always have to be for sacrafices. If you know how to do it properly, you'll often get a base hit out of it.
If he's bunting for a hit, that's fine. If he's bunting for sacrifices he's wasting at-bats.
and no its not giving up outs. having your #2 hitter ground into double plays is giving up outs.
The run expectancies for the two situations are virtually the same (1.573 and 1.467), so you aren't putting yourself in a better position to score a run by sacrificing an out to advance the runners a base.

It just so happened that on the totem pole of what he could have done in that situation, he did the worst thing:
Hit
Productive Out
Unproductive Out
GIDP

Shit happens. But I'm glad Torre is showing confidence in Robbie.

[rockin500]

he still should be bunting. a #2 hitters job is to make sure the guy gets to third with less than two outs no matter what so the sluggers behind him can get him in.

again, why do you think the white sox are where they are at?

[PissedPrincess]

he still should be bunting. a #2 hitters job is to make sure the guy gets to third with less than two outs no matter what so the sluggers behind him can get him in.

again, why do you think the white sox are where they are at?

Not in the AL Ray. It just isn't done. We don't give away outs. The Red Sox have led the league in runs scored for 3 years running now. NO ONE BUNTS.

[PissedPrincess]

The White Sox are mediocre at scoring runs. They have the best pitching.

[milky_way]

The White Sox are mediocre at scoring runs. They have the best pitching.
Exactly. They have the best ERA in the AL, which is why they've won the most games.

[rockin500]

Exactly. They have the best ERA in the AL, which is why they've won the most games.
maybe so, but when they only need to get one run, they sure do know how to get it.

[milky_way]

Well this is the Yankees, and most of the time we need 5 runs :D

Seriously, with this pitching staff, we can't afford to play for one-run. Baltimore, Boston, and New York all need to bomb away because our pitching is so abysmal.

[rockin500]

Well this is the Yankees, and most of the time we need 5 runs :D

Seriously, with this pitching staff, we can't afford to play for one-run. Baltimore, Boston, and New York all need to bomb away because our pitching is so abysmal.
i guess i can understand that, i guess im just used to holding teams to 3 runs or less and with our ineptitude at scoring just one run when needed its needed.

normally i dont agree with bunting in that situation. im just saying in like the 9th inning and you are down by one run, thats the route i would go if i had the bombers after the #2 hitter.

someone may want to tell cabrera to actually catch a ball and not rely on matsui-san! :D

[Royce]

When you have Mark Prior you really only need 2 runs, 3 tops.

[rockin500]

When you have Mark Prior you really only need 2 runs, 3 tops.
when hes good. he had 2 brutal games though right before the break. :( until today's. :)

but really, i still stick with my opinion that a #2 hitter has to be able to bunt in any situation.

[Royce]

but really, i still stick with my opinion that a #2 hitter has to be able to bunt in any situation.

I'm with you on that. Heck, I wanted A-Rod to bunt Sheff over in the 9th.

I mean, Cano being a lefty may get him out of bunting sometimes if he has the control to hit the ball to the right side and get the guy over from second. That's what Bernie did tonite, which I question the move by Francona to bring in a righty to face Bernie where all he has to do is pull a weak grounder to get Womack over to third with one out, and that just what he did, drawing the infield in, which might have allowed for Sierra's double to get through the infield. I mean, it's harder to hit a grounder to the opposite side rather then pulling one, IMO and from my experience in playing baseball.

[milky_way]

but really, i still stick with my opinion that a #2 hitter has to be able to bunt in any situation.
lol, I think this is a disagreement in offensive philosophy. I'm a Moneyball person, so I don't believe in bunts, stolen bases, and God ;) :tongue:

[Vivid]

C

Wouldn't it be interesting if NYY traded managers with Tampa Bay for a season.

:tongue:

[Royce]

Hell no, I hate freakin' Lou. He's a jackass and a terrible manager.

[Kiwideus]

Hell no, I hate freakin' Lou. He's a jackass and a terrible manager.

I second that!! :eek:

:D

[Vivid]

I think he does ok for the cards he is dealt.

I just think it would be interesting to see the highest paid club to swap with the lowest paid club for awhile.

See how things turn out.