Big news!

[00_Agent]

Sorry, it's really not all that big, but I wanted to get my number of views up. :)

Anyway. The Pirates have made another trade with the White Sox for a pithing prospect. They sent Damaso Marte and some Yan guy to them for Matt Guerrier. Here is the link . . .

http://post-gazette.com/breaking/20020327buctrade5.asp

00

[imgreat95]

this trade actually disappoionts me. Esteban Yan, I believe, was the future 2nd baseman for the pirates. At only 20 years old, he hit close to .300... but the biggest thing was that he stole 56 bases for hickory last season while only being caught something like 6 times. I saw Yan play last year down in Hickory, and I really liked him.

Hopefully, Guerrier proves to be worth it.

[00_Agent]

Well, the only person that I had heard of that was involved was Marte. You make Yan sound pretty good, so I hope they didn't make a mistake. I didn't realize that he had such speed.

Guerrier's numbers in the minors looked pretty good, but his major league numbers were atrocious. I hope he gets it together and turns out to be worth it too. I didn't realize how good Yan was supposed to be. I take it this Guerrier is supposed to be a half-decent prospect then if we gave up both those guys for him?

00

[imgreat95]

Guerrier is supposed to be the #4 prospect in the White Sox organization. I believe, that Yan was listed as our #9 by most publications. But since he was only 20, I am sure he would have moved up. I am hoping that they did not think Yan was expendibale because of having Pokey

[GiveHyzduashot]

Shawn, this guy's name is Edwin Yan, not Esteban. Esteban is the Devil Rays' closer. :P

I think the Pirates believed Yan was available because Mackowiack can play second, Rico Washington can play second, and there are too many good catchers not to move Kendall to second. I really believe Reese will be gone once Kendall learns to play second. And if he plays second, Yan is expendable. There's also a second baseman named Victor Castillo, who is playing at AA this year. Supposedly he is a good prospect, so that too makes Yan expendable.

That being said, I would do this trade even if Yan was the next second baseman. Guerrier has put up spectacular numbers in the minor leagues at a high level. Yan has put up very good numbers at short A ball Hickory. Marte wouldn't make this team with Sauerbeck and Beimel. Guerrier also looks like he can close a bit.

It looks to me like DL made a very good move here. He acquired a solid AA/AAA prospect for a guy who played short A ball and a guy who is 27 and out of options. The only downfall is Guerrier is not left handed.

[imgreat95]

Those guys could all prove to be 2nd baseman... However, none of them has the speed that Yan has. I just reallyl iked yan..

True... Guerrier picthed wlell in the minors, but he has gotten totally rocked in the majors so far. Not to say that it will continue to happen like that, but just the so far observation.

[GiveHyzduashot]

From the looks of it, this was the first ST for Guerrier. If anything, I'd say it's just the emotions of being in your first big league camp.

Yan may have all the speed in the world. But I won't get too excited over what a guy did in low A ball. True, you saw him first hand and I saw his stats. However, the odds are against Yan of doing well. If he hit .320 or so in low A ball I'd be disappointed. But .286 is pretty average, really. In the higher level, that average would probably drop around .260. The competition is better too, so he wouldn't have as much success stealing bases.

[imgreat95]

there was a reason though that yan was listed as high as #6 among our prospects on most lists nationally. The kid was only 20 years old.. and had plenty of room to improve. If I remember what I read, he hit like .330 over the last 1/2 of the season at hickory last year. It could also be that I saw him on a good night though too. The night I saw him, he went 4-5 with a homer, and 4 steals.
so it could all depend. I did really like the kid though.

[GiveHyzduashot]

Considering he hit two homers all year, I'd say you saw him on a good night.

Sadly, #6 on our prospect list doesn't mean much. This system is so depleted of talent, the #6 prospect is the #15 prospect in a very deep system and #10 (maybe) in a typical system. And like I said, there is just as good of a chance as Yan being successfull as there is him being unsuccessful. The odds are probably stacked against him. With Guerrier, there is a better chance of him succeeding than Yan.

It all depends though. I've seen players in Altoona who I thought were solid players that weren't listed on the prospect lists and vice versa. The beauty is in the eye of the beholder ...

[Greymire]

Some interesting thoughts. I have to wonder though, why we didnt deal Fetters and one fo them to the Marlins. Look at the deal they made with the Cubs.

http://msn.espn.go.com/mlb/news/2002/0327/1359044.html

Matt Clement would look good in our rotation right now.

I sort of differ with the Kendall comments above. *IF* he can make the switch to second, it might be ok. Personally I think Pokey is our future at second though. If he hits .250, with his glove, we have our man. I think i Kendall hits well this year, we should unlaod him and his hefty contract. We have Cota and possibly House, ready by then. I think Cota should be kept this tear, but it looks like Osik is getting the playing time again. I thought Keith would be trade.

[GiveHyzduashot]

Greymire, I think Alfonseca is rated by the Cubs higher than Fetters is. We'd probably have to throw in somebody to get Clement.

I disagree on Cota. I think he should go to AAA and get in some at bats. Then if a team needs Osik, you trade him and call Osik up. Cota rotting on the bench wastes at bats, and consequently hinders his development.

[buildordon]

Here's a link you should look at: www.sportingnews.com/voices/minor_league_report/20010816.html

I look at trading yen at this point was to improve our pitching depth that we are still not up to par with.

It seams to me if you want to improve your team it starts with pitching either you are trading it away or You are recieving it in return .

Looks like a good deal only time will tell for sure.

[GiveHyzduashot]

Those are some pretty strong words coming from a site that seems to know what they are talking about. After his season this year, they would have raved about him even more.

I am liking this trade the more I read about it.

[Rick]

imgreat, while Yan stole a lot of bases his pct. wasn't that good. He was actually caught 21 times! That's a success rate of 69%, not that impressive. He played both 2B and SS and made 38 errors, again not impressive. The fields at that level could have been a factor though. His SLG. PCT. was only .322 so he has no power at all Also his OBP was.347, not good for a guy who would project as a #1 hitter. He is young though and things could still go either way. that being said, even if he would make it , it would probably be in about 3 years. Guerrier should be here by Septmber or at the latest, next season. I tired of looking 4 or 5 years down the line. A good trade IMO.

[00_Agent]

That is a pretty encouraging little write up on Guerrier.

They said that he has a live arm, what kind of stuff does he throw?

00

[Greymire]

After reading your reply, I can see a valid point in sending Cota down. Sad part is though, he has played as well as Kendall so far, but it is only spring and he isnt really known as a hitter.

[GiveHyzduashot]

Averages 88-89 MPH, solid fastball, curve, change, and slider.
Low walks, holds runners well, good fielder. Doesn't walk many.

Info from Johnny Ray at onlybucs, who knows what he's talking about ...

[00_Agent]

Thank you very much. I don't see why they ever saw him as a closer, but what the hell.

00

[imgreat95]

i think it was the 38 saves he had during his first two minor league seasons that made them think of him as a closer..

[Rick]

He throws the 4 basic pitches: fastball, curve, slider and change. His best pitch is supposed to be his slider. He's not a hard thrower, getting it up there at about 90mph. He has been compared, in style, to Greg Maddux.

[00_Agent]

well, he had a lot of saves, but stuff wise, he doesn't have the classic closer fastball.

00

[GiveHyzduashot]

Cardiac Williams doesn't have a lot of heat either, but he gets the job done too.

All in all, a fastball is overrated if you are a one inning pitcher. Sure it helps you be more dominant, but Mike Williams gets the job done just as well as anyone else. And if he threw 95 MPH, he would outprice himself.

For one inning, for three outs, it doesn't matter much if you throw 95 and have a decent change/slider or throw 88 and have a great slider. Three outs is three outs.

[imgreat95]

one of the better closers of our lifetime was a guy named Doug Jones. His primary pitch was a 74 mph changeup. I don't know that i EVER saw the dude throw harder than about 82.

[imgreat95]

Thought I would re-visit this trade a little bit... After much research to find Edwin Yan (who is now going by Ruddy, I discovered him to be hitting .367 for the Winston Salem A team for the White Sox. In 60 at bats, he has 22 hits, as well as 8 walks. This translates into a .441 OBP. Oh.. he also has 14 steals already. Not too bad for a kid who is only 21.

For whatever reason though, I can't find anything on Guerrier. I thought he was pitching at Nashville, but can't seem to find him ANYWHERE!

[00_Agent]

Wow, when I saw this thread up, I was wondering why it was ressurected. It was kind of weird to see a thread I posted many moons ago.

I thought that Guerrier was hurt? But I don't know. Maybe Josh knows.:cool:

As for the trade, it was kind of horribly so far, wasn't it? Damaso was great last season, though I don't know what he is doing this year and "Ruddy" looks like he is for real. And I think Sean said it all for our side of the trade with "I can't seem to find him ANYWHERE!"

00

[GiveHyzduashot]

It's been so long that I forgot this thread was still around ... I couldn't figure out for the life of me what thread I posted in recently that was such a hot topic ... no wonder, since the thread is 13-14 months old.

Regarding Ruddy, I still think he won't make an impact at the majors. If he does, I can't fault the Bucs for trading him. When he was traded, he was all speed and not much of a hitter.

I'm going to go send an email to a secret source about Guerrier ... last thing I could find on him was that he signed a one year contract in February.

[imgreat95]

I "spoke" with Joe Rutter tonight. He tells me that Guerrier is on the DL with some sort of shoulder problem.

[GiveHyzduashot]

I shot off an email to Steve Novotney ... Novotney told me that Guerrier should be at Nashville now, and if he isn't activated, he will be soon.

[imgreat95]

In March 2002, the Pirates traded left-handed reliever Damaso Marte and minor-league second baseman Ruddy Yan to the Chicago White Sox for Matt Guerrier, a right-handed pitcher who won 18 minor-league games the previous season. Marte has a 1.91 ERA with the White Sox. Yan leads the Class A Carolina League in runs and stolen bases and is seventh in batting. Guerrier was 7-12 at Nashville last year and is 3-6 this year.