How good Jim Leyland really is?

[Timberwolf]

I keep hearing how Leyland is a great strategist and whatnot. I just laugh when I hear or read about it. What exactly has he ever won as a manager? Sure he won a WS ring with the Marlins, but anyone could have won with a team that was buying a championship that year. He even admitted that he did not even have to manage then. To me, a great manager is how you develop players into good players like Tom Kelly did with the Twins or Art Howe did with the A's. That's how I consider a manager a great manager. Leyland was good, but to say that he is the best manager is off-base. I always thought of him as an overrated manager.

If he was this good, how come the Rockies did next to nothing under him and then he bailed out on them after one season. How come the Pirates never won a championship let alone the World Series which featured players like Drabek, Lind, Van Slyke, Bonds, Bream, Lavalliere, Ted Powers, Zane Smith, Bonilla, and etc. How come the Pirates who have great prospects at the time never became good in the late nineties? How was it that Gene Lamont made them winners not Leyland? How come the Marlins young players were horrible under Leyland?

This Tigers team is nowhere near close to winning a championship or be in the level of Chicago, Cleveland, or even Minnesota for that matter. Leyland is not a guy that can develop players well so it boggles my mind why Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski went out of his way to hire Leyland thinking he will have that magic like in Florida. You would think Dombrowski would have learned that Leyland is not a fit with the Tigers after what happened with the Marlins in 1998. He was better served hiring Jim Tracy, who might be a better fit since he can work well with the young players and might have that energy and fire to have that work ethic with young players.

It will be interesting how Leyland does in Detroit. If there is an intriguting story to follow in Major League Baseball this year to me, it's how Leyland does with the Tigers.

[Tigers#1]

As i've said before, there are so few "great" managers in baseball. The only ones i would say are "great" are Bobby Cox and Mike Scioscia. Ozzie might become one but it's still too soon to tell.

Everyone else is pretty much as good as their team's talent.

[Timberwolf]

Cox and Scioscia are the best IMO.

Eric Wedge is pretty good too. I thought he has been great these last three years. I was impressed with him in his first year as a manager when he got the most out of his young players. His Indians played the Twins pretty tough in his first year as the Indians manager.

LaRussa is solid.

Bobby Valentine is a scum, but he can manage.

I used to think Felipe Alou was great, but his last years with the Expos was horrible and he hasn't really established himself as a Giants manager.

The most overrated manager IMO is Ron Gardenhire.

[Durango53]

All Jimmy did was suck on heaters and down whiskey in the dugout with the Rockies. And his excitment was letting his players hit sometimes. (Themselves)

[Timberwolf]

I really thought he would do a good job with the Rockies. His team wasn't that bad. Granted they weren't the best team in the NL West, but they should have won at least 80 or 81 games at best. Leyland completely destroyed Thomson and Wright's confidence. It will be interesting how he handles Bonderman and Justin Verlander. His stint with the Rockies had me turned off ever since.

[Durango53]

I was excited as hell when they hired him. What turned me of was him running after a year.

[Toy Cannon]

IMO, Leyland goes down as one of the more overrated skippers in MLB. I was throughly disgusted watching him parade around the field when the Marlins won the series as if he were the reason. Like Timberwolf said, anyone could have managed that NL version of "buy every available star on the market cause we're the Yankees".

He's in the AL now and managing has nothing to do with winning games. There is no such thing as a "great manager" in the American League. The DH took care of that over 30 years ago.

[imgreat95]

Gene Lamont turned the Pirates into winners?? Damn... I must have slept through those seasons.

What great prospects did the Pirates have when leyland left?? And even if the prospects had existed, how would it have looked either good... or bad... for him had they done well when he was no longer in the organization?

[Timberwolf]

In 1998, the Pirates were leading the NL Central for most of the season till they ran out of steam that year, Shawn. I enjoyed watching that teams. Guys like Jermaine Allensworth, Jason Schmidt, Cordova, Al Martin, Womack, Kevin Young, Lou Collier, Rincon, Abraham Nunez, Tim Laker, Jose Silva, Loaiza (who was the ace I believe), and others. They did okay in 1999. I thought Lamont did a great job developing into good players. It's too bad McClatchy couldn't afford them which set Lamont and Lloyd McClendon to fail. Those were the great prospects that Leyland couldn't work with, but Lamont did.

Dale: I saw that hilarious act by Leyland as he ran all over the stadium by raising that flag that Sunday night at Joe Robbie Stadium. I was so disgusted. I was rooting for the Indians to beat the Marlins and as a Twins fan, I couldn't stand the Tribe for the monopoly of the division at the time. This is a guy who was completely miserable when his Marlins team was in the playoffs and then he makes a mockery out of himself running a victory parade at the stadium.

[imgreat95]

In 1998, the Pirates were leading the NL Central for most of the season till they ran out of steam that year, Shawn. I enjoyed watching that teams. Guys like Jermaine Allensworth, Jason Schmidt, Cordova, Al Martin, Womack, Kevin Young, Lou Collier, Rincon, Abraham Nunez, Tim Laker, Jose Silva, Loaiza (who was the ace I believe), and others. They did okay in 1999. I thought Lamont did a great job developing into good players. It's too bad McClatchy couldn't afford them which set Lamont and Lloyd McClendon to fail. Those were the great prospects that Leyland couldn't work with, but Lamont did.


The Pirates had their last winning season in 1992. Gene Lamont did not turn the Pirates into winners if you consider the fact that he did not begin managing until 1997.

In 1998, the Pirates finished 69-93... . 33 games out of first place. Those guys you mentioned were never Pirate prospects in the 90s. Most of them were guys who were lucky to be in the majors, and that is obvious by the fact that they are no longer there. Not a single one of those guys you mentioned except for Jason Schmidt left because they were unable to afford them. They left because they were either traded.. or were bad ballplers.

The "succes" that Lamont had had nothing to do witht the fact that Leyland couldnt win with those p layers, because he never managed hardly any of them.

[Tigers#1]

Lamont is now our third base coach. Hopefully he can swing his arm around in a circle good enough to keep a job here. :)

[Timberwolf]

Shawn: I meant 1997 not 1998. My mistake there.

[imgreat95]

1997 was not a winning season either. They fdinished below .500 for the season. That is not turning a team into winners to have one flash in the pan season where you ALMOST have a winning record. Sorry.. It just didnt happen here in Pittsburgh.

[brandonwarne52]

I think Jim Leyland is a good manager, but Alan Trammell deserved better.

[~*TiGeRs f@N*~]

I think Jim Leyland is a good manager, but Alan Trammell deserved better.
exactly

[Trots]

I think Leyland's a decent manager. Whether or not he still has the stomach to manage multi-millionaires with their own agendas is the question that bothers me.

I'm curious why anyone thinks this Tigers squad is young? Pudge, Magglio, DY, Rogers and Jones are all over thirty. Polanco and Guillen have to be very close to the big 3-0. Pena and Monroe have to be what? 27? Inge is probably 26. Sure, Bonderman, Verlander (if he comes north), Robertson and Granderson are younger guys, but there isn't exactly a youth movement underway at Comerica Park.

That's why Leyland got the nod over younger guys. There is some pressure to win now. Maybe not playoffs, but certainly above .500. In another two years, when a number of the vets are gone and the next wave of kids arrive, then the Tigers may look to a younger skipper.

I also am not buying the "anyone could have managed the Marlins" line. There is a certain skill in managing egos and getting results. How many supposed great teams have we seen that haven't gotten titles? Just because a team is loaded with talent hardly assures victory. Now, I'm sure some of the guys do just go along for the ride, but managers who have consistent success with great teams do merit some degree of credit.