Barry Bonds HR Record

[YANKS-FAN-22]

I just want to get an idea on how many people agree that if in fact if Barry Bonds exceeds Hank Aaron's home run record they should score it but put a dash next to the record. I completely agree with this.Do you think Babe Ruth used steroids..no..so its not fair!

[StormShadow]

I just want to get an idea on how many people agree that if in fact if Barry Bonds exceeds Hank Aaron's home run record they should score it but put a dash next to the record. I completely agree with this.Do you think Babe Ruth used steroids..no..so its not fair!

Do you know for a fact that Ruth did not use steroids? They were developed in the 1930's, you know. Do you know for a fact Bonds used them, because if you do I'm sure Mitchell would like to talk to you. How do you know Mantle, Maris, Mays, Ripken, Gerig were not on them? Mantle hit a ball 400+ feet with a ripped up arm, Ripken played 20+ years at SS without missing a game, AND played during the roid era, so should they investigate him? Do you believe Maris should have an asterisk next his name because he needed more games than Ruth?

People dont want to even remotely think that some of the legends could have been anything but kings.

My point is people keep saying that Bonds did this, Bonds was on that, but yet no one stops to think..................it is known as the ROIDS ERA, not the BONDS ROID ERA, if Bonds was on them so was 80% of the other players. IF Bonds was taking them all it proves is that he was evening the playing field for himself. All this investigation is doing is showing the public what we all knew already...............80's-2000 baseball was full of roids. Does this prove Bonds is worse than say... Rafael Palmeiro, or any other player caught.....nope, it just proves that managers, owners and players turned a blind eye to known issue instead of stopping it.

There would not be all this hoopla if Bonds was not about to break Aarons record and didnt gain size. If people are going to base who takes roids off of size growth I ask you to look at A-Rod and Miguel Cabrera. Both of them went from average size to monsters in the off season, but yet nothing is being said about that, why is that? Well Bonds hates the media always has and always will, and he is approaching the most sacred record in all of sports so why not base this whole investigation off on him, because he is the evil one. The media makes and breaks players, so if the media does not like you, sorry but you are SOL, hence Maris.

Now no one is looking at Ivan Rodriguez, I mean the man went from Pudge to skinny in less than an off season. One effect of getting off roids is you lose size, but yet again this was not even questioned. Mantle played with a slightly torn ACL and as I said before hit a ball 400+ feet with a torn Tricep and ripped up ligament, that is not normal. Was he on roids? Maybe, maybe not we will never know.

To many people think Roids are a new thing, but they are not. Roids have been around for over 70 years and have been being used since, but did not come into the publics eye until the late 80's.

Another thing to remember is steroids dont always have to make you bigger, so people should stop and look at pitchers as well.

So do I believe when Bonds breaks the record there should be something next to his name....................not useless he is found guilty, but I also believe that if they do that EVERY record from that era should have the same thing, because who knows if Ripken was using when he broke the record. It is only fair to even the record fields. Do I think Bonds is guilty of using them..............Yes I do, but I also believe that WAY more than half of the players then were using as well, including my all time favorite players and pitchers. It would be naive of me to think that Bonds and a few others were the only users.

Also if baseball starts to mark up records due to things like roids, they should also investigate the live balls, because wouldnt that be considered cheating as well, from a record stand point? Records were broken with a harder ball than the legends of past, so should their records be marked as well, because technically it is not fair to Ruth,Mantle, Maris etc.. that their records are being broken with a ball that goes 10x the distance of theirs.

Now I ask you this..................Is this worse than Pete Rose POSSIBLY fixing games for his gambling? Do we KNOW Rose did not fix games?

I also believe that Mitchell is not going to find enough evidence to indict Bonds, because if they had a pot to piss in then they would have done it already, look at how fast they indicted Vick, why....because they had proof and witnesses. Now the Bonds jury is going to sit for another six months hoping and praying god finds it in his heart to crap out enough proof to do something other than stick their thumb up their butts all day.

Right now they are grasping at hope that someone will come break the case open, but I doubt it will happen. As far as I'm concerned this is a witch hunt and what baseball needs to do is either open this case wide up or shut up. All this crap about roids is ruining the face of baseball, so either make the case or chalk all this up as the past and let it go, because this whole thing is just getting ridiculous.

While we can all speculate about whether he did or he did not, or should there or shouldnt there be something in the record books we all need to stop and think.....................MOST OF THE PLAYERS WERE USING. So why is Bonds catching all the crap for this.....you know the answer whether you want admit it or not. Now dont forget about ALL the records that have been broken in the roid era, why should they be upheld, because after all WHO KNOWS?


Now on a side note, I want to take the worlds strongest man and see if he can hit 700 home runs, get almost 3000 hits and play a marathon season. I'm willing to bet he can not do any of the above. Yes Roids give you more power and help you recover MUCH faster, but that is just part of hitting a baseball. Hitting a moving, sliding, dipping, rising speed changing round ball with a round bat perfectly is an art that is taken for granted by those who just dont know. I'm not the biggest dude in the world, but I can still take a ball 380 feet, but yet I practiced my a$$ off, and learned how to do and having talent does help, but hard work is just as important. It is part strength but more so mechanics, timing, and just having the ability to do it. So did roids help power hitters.....well only a moron would say no, but does it help them as much as the media and others want you to believe, nope. Bonds is just a fantastic, talented player, that just happens to HATE the media so he dragged under the bus just like Maris. I love hearing the media ACT like they have a clue about hitting.......when the reality is I'm willing to bet if you put them in a batting cage they would have trouble hitting on medium when the ball is right down the middle, let alone having to figure out what pitch is coming next, where it is going. Baseball is 20% physical and 80% mental (not scientific, just my belief).

If hitting a homerun is all about power, how in the hell does Beckett and Arroyo do it?

[Rockin Robin]

Very well said, Storm.

Barry Bonds did not do anything that was illegal at the time. Ever other player had the same opportunities as he did to use performance enhancing drugs. And since he has NOT failed a drug test since mandatory testing began, there is NO PROOF that he used anything. It's only speculation.

If you went back through baseball history, I'm sure you'd find PLENTY of players who went from skinny little runts in their first couple of years to monster sized hitters ending up in the Hall of Fame. Yet no one questions their potential use of anything because it's ancient history.

Leave Barry Bonds alone. There is no substance in the world that can make someone hit the ball. Bonds has incredible natural ability and a tremendous talent. He has over 2900 hits. Even if none of those balls went out of the part, 2900 hits is still quite impressive. And worthy of an unscathed Hall of Fame entry.

So leave Barry alone. He's an incredible player, no matter what.

[Kiwideus]

correct me or not, i think i remember when Mark MCGwire was called for to testify or something with Sammy Sosa, Rafael Palmerio, etc..

Mark said that steriods is getting out of control at the moment, so i assume 80% of MLB players took it.

[Painted_Red]

Even if the player had the opportunities to use steroids would it still be natural? It enhances preformance and takes the fun out of baseball; for example: if you had a player that you knew was on steroids and a plaer who didn't..who would you expect to play better? Some players don't want an easy way to make records, they like to do it on thier own.

As for Barry, if he did shoot the juice he should be a real man and admit it.

[StormShadow]

Even if the player had the opportunities to use steroids would it still be natural? It enhances preformance and takes the fun out of baseball; for example: if you had a player that you knew was on steroids and a plaer who didn't..who would you expect to play better? eSome players don't want an easy way to make records, they like to do it on thir own.

As for Barry, if he did shoot the juice he should be a real man and admit it.


if you had a player that you knew was on steroids and a plaer who didn't..who would you expect to play better?

Well that is a loaded question, because roids does not make you a better player, it just give you more strength to do more and better healing time. Lets take A-Rod, the man is one of, if not the greatest player in the game today, yesterday or last century. A-Rod the way he is (clean I'm assuming) is better than Palmeiro, Big Mac, and ken caminiti 10 fold, and 2 out of 3 of them were known users . So, no I dont think roids makes you a better player. A good player is one who has a head for the game, can player both sides of the field and is more than a 1 tool player. Does it make you hit the ball further...well it does help your strength, but it does not help your hand eye coordination. The biggest benefit to roids is the healing time, baseball players need more healing time than they do strength per say. A power hitter needs explosive strength not progressive unlike football where you need both almost every moment. I'm willing to bet if you were to ask any baseball player that took roids what the biggest benefit to the juice is most of them would tell you the healing time not the strength factor.

Even if the player had the opportunities to use steroids would it still be natural?

Obviously not, but yet baseball banned Phosphagen and just about all other supplements, but here is the kicker........your body produces creaitine, Phosphagen and testosterone along with most other supplements that athletes take, so is it natural if Big Mac took Phosphagen if your body natural produces it? I take Phosphagen everyday, so is it cheating when I step on the field, I mean I dont buy it illegally I walk right into GNC and purchase it.

Now I dont agree with players taking Anabolic's, but I will tell you this, I highly doubt MOST of the players at this time were refusing them, because it was the only way to even the playing field.


As for Barry, if he did shoot the juice he should be a real man and admit it.

I agree 100%, man up and admit. Now here is the crappy part....whether he did or he didnt the media made it so he was guilty before due process. I'm willing to bet if Bonds admits it, this whole Mitchell crap will go away just like the devil in Needful Things, as I said before this is a witch hunt and in the process of trying to get Bonds they are just dragging baseball through the mud.

[Painted_Red]

You're completely right i jumped the gun on the steroids making a player better but as you explained it makes more sense.

What i meant was making a good player improved. my fault though

[StormShadow]

You're completely right i jumped the gun on the steroids making a player better but as you explained it makes more sense.

What i meant was making a good player improved. my fault though

no issues, I like to have FRIENDLY ADULT discussions and so far that is all that I have had on here and I would like to thank everyone for being adult :)

Trust me...steroids ruined a really good friend of mine. He an amazing player and believe it or not roids ruined him :( He started taking Anabolic's and within 3 years he ripped up his shoulder, back and chest. The man was almost NEVER hurt and within a short 3 year time span he go destroyed because he abused roids. So I will agree with you on the fact that they CAN, MAYBE make a good player a tad bit better, but its playing with a loaded gun, because there is more that can go wrong and for the little bit you gain its not worth it.

I truly believe alot of the injuries this in the past few years have been caused by roids, because players bodies cant adjust and they cant deal with the pain so they land on the DL with tears, pulls and other injuries that should not have happened.

[Painted_Red]

Totally, thier muscles seem to grow faster and the body cant adjust as fast and it makes these injuries happen. But i think its a little wierd to see Barry coming up with over 70 HRs later in his career, yeah Clemens is older and still good, so I dont know what to say.

[StormShadow]

Totally, thier muscles seem to grow faster and the body cant adjust as fast and it makes these injuries happen. But i think its a little wierd to see Barry coming up with over 70 HRs later in his career, yeah Clemens is older and still good, so I dont know what to say.

You hit it right on the head.......pitchers are not thought of as users, but honestly I think they benefit more than any other player on the field, due to the fact that their bodies are taxed for a longer period of time and they need time to heal. Baseball is a stop and go game, but when the pitcher is on the mound he is going constantly for 80+ pitches, and using every single muscle fiber in his body, not to mention it is a scientifically proven fact that a arms natural motion is NOT directly over arm and it puts alot of strain on shoulders, bi's, Tri's, upper/lower back and abs. So every 5 to 7 days the pitchers go out there and use everything he has to survive, moving his wrist, arm and shoulder in unnatural motions which is cause for injury and 5 days is not enough time to heal an entire body.

Ok so now you have a player who plays right field, while he may play everyday where as a pitcher plays every 5 or so, he still gets more rest than a pitcher does. The average player steps up to the plate 4 times a game and is considered successful if he gets on base once. So lets say that hitter SWINGS at 6 pitches an at bat, he still only uses his body 24 times a game at the plate. Where as a pitcher gets on the mound and fires atleast 80 pitches a game giving his all. So now the hitter goes and plays right field and gets 6 balls hit to him, so now he has to throw 6 times, so the way I see it a pitcher is in need of the healing part of roids more than your average player. Now this is just an example and is by in no way written in stone and will vary VERY single game and player.

So now when a pitcher is his 40's is throwing heat like Ryan for example. I have to wonder how he is doing it, yes conditioning makes a huge difference as does genetics, but it just makes one wonder..................how, is there something else there? Honestly I wonder about pitchers more than I do about guys like Bonds, Mac, A-Rod, Miggy Etc... because a pitcher would be the most likely to benefit the most from roids and as we all know most people associate roids with getting BIG, but that is not true. You dont have to be big to be on the juice.

[Painted_Red]

Yeah, and if the pitcher is using roids, that would make him more injury prone as to the motion his pitch as you said. Sliders help and hurt pitchers heh

[imgreat95]

Hank Aaron had his best season at the age of 37... Barry had his best season at the age of 36....the later in the career argument dies right there.

[StormShadow]

Hank Aaron had his best season at the age of 37... Barry had his best season at the age of 36....the later in the career argument dies right there.

like I said it changes with each player and each game, not to mention I was refering more to older pitchers more than anything else

I dont think his best season was in 71, compare the stats. Yes he had 47 homeruns, 669 slug and 410 obp, but he only had 495 at bats. I think it was one of his better years but not his best. I would have to say 57 was his over best year when you factor in the amount of at bats he had with the rest of his numbers.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/aaronha01.shtml

[imgreat95]

I am not talking about overall best season. It is the home run record which is being discussed here, so I am talking strictly about homeruns...

[StormShadow]

I am not talking about overall best season. It is the home run record which is being discussed here, so I am talking strictly about homeruns...

Well then yeah he had his best year in 71 in that case

[Rockin Robin]

....Ok so now you have a player who plays right field, while he may play everyday where as a pitcher plays every 5 or so, he still gets more rest than a pitcher does. The average player steps up to the plate 4 times a game and is considered successful if he gets on base once. So lets say that hitter SWINGS at 6 pitches an at bat, he still only uses his body 24 times a game at the plate. Where as a pitcher gets on the mound and fires atleast 80 pitches a game giving his all. So now the hitter goes and plays right field and gets 6 balls hit to him, so now he has to throw 6 times, so the way I see it a pitcher is in need of the healing part of roids more than your average player. Now this is just an example and is by in no way written in stone and will vary VERY single game and player.

So now when a pitcher is his 40's is throwing heat like Ryan for example. I have to wonder how he is doing it, yes conditioning makes a huge difference as does genetics, but it just makes one wonder......


Very compelling argument! Great details and comparisons in there.


Why is it only all of a sudden that people are talking about pitchers juicing? Position players have been questioned for a long time, but pitchers were never mentioned. Why now??

[uscrocks93]

In my Mind Hank Aaron will always be the True Home Run King until A-Rod breaks Barry record.

[StormShadow]

In my Mind Hank Aaron will always be the True Home Run King until A-Rod breaks Barry record.

OK, but that has nothing to do with the debate going on here.

[Kiwideus]

Looks like Barry will break Hank's record anytime.

If he took steriods and denied to everybody, karma will catch him.

we all just wait and let the truth come out itself.

[StormShadow]

Looks like Barry will break Hank's record anytime.

If he took steriods and denied to everybody, karma will catch him.

we all just wait and let the truth come out itself.

Thank you :D I agree 100%

Now the one thing that is going to pi$$ me off to no return is when he break it and his career is long gone, people are NEVER going admit to how awesome of a player he truly was and is. Steroids or no steroids he is an amazing player and that is that.

[Painted_Red]

Looks like Barry will break Hank's record anytime.

If he took steriods and denied to everybody, karma will catch him.

we all just wait and let the truth come out itself.

We saw that when Rafael Palmeiro tested positive finally and Mark McGwire not getting voted in the hall of fame (first ballot though) I think Barry's will be different, as we all know we wont hardly find anymore players positive due to the hardcore testing unless a new drug skids past the results. My opinion is he did more than likely use steroids, but im not going to yell and scream "KICK HIM OUT!" like some other people on this forum

Yeah you guys argue "people get bigger more in thier career", but have you seen this man's head? no, Im not basing my opinion just off of that either. take in to the fact that barry most of or half of his career was a fast runner and a guy who hits so-so homeruns, then we see this new improved guy that has this record breaking season. Canseco's accusation tied around himself and McGwire. As we all know McGwire broke single season homeruns first, and this speech he came up with in the court..Curt Schilling is right.."J ust say No, I didnt do steriods"

That whole era will always be known for steriods, not one of the greatest. Bonds' Karma is hitting him as we speak..

Sorry for ramblin' on guys..im full of it anyway:thumbsup: :yadda:

[StormShadow]

We saw that when Rafael Palmeiro tested positive finally and Mark McGwire not getting voted in the hall of fame (first ballot though) I think Barry's will be different, as we all know we wont hardly find anymore players positive due to the hardcore testing unless a new drug skids past the results. My opinion is he did more than likely use steroids, but im not going to yell and scream "KICK HIM OUT!" like some other people on this forum

Yeah you guys argue "people get bigger more in thier career", but have you seen this man's head? no, Im not basing my opinion just off of that either. take in to the fact that barry most of or half of his career was a fast runner and a guy who hits so-so homeruns, then we see this new improved guy that has this record breaking season. Canseco's accusation tied around himself and McGwire. As we all know McGwire broke single season homeruns first, and this speech he came up with in the court..Curt Schilling is right.."J ust say No, I didnt do steriods"

That whole era will always be known for steriods, not one of the greatest. Bonds' Karma is hitting him as we speak..

Sorry for ramblin' on guys..im full of it anyway:thumbsup: :yadda:

Very well spoken :thumbsup:

[Fireball]

What I see from StormShadow and the vast majority of Barry Bonds supporters is an eagerness to justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior. The steroids era was the result of a large fraction of Major League Baseball players using steroids, that's true. But Bonds is the best of these cheaters (and let's call them what they are, folks), and is approaching the greatest record in sports. It's not unnatural to assume that the media and the fans would fixate themselves on this one extreme example and vent their anger out on Bonds.

With regard to there being no proof, I see the situation this way: I am willing to separate that part of me which is pragmatic and by the book with that part of me that is the impassioned baseball fan. Lacking the necessary proof that would prevent him from holding the record asterisk free or keep him from the Hall of Fame, I think that you've got to let him have both. If I'm a sports writer casting my vote, Bonds is in the Hall of Fame, absolutely. One must think like a machine when concerning matters of legitimacy. But we fans are human. We love our game, and when the integrity of the sport is compromised, we mourn for it. The greatest record in sports is about to be broken by a cheater, and all those who say they want Bonds to break the record seem woefully unconcerned for the purity or honor of baseball.

I ask anyone who supports Bonds...if we didn't care that the holders of our records are cheaters, if all we really wanted to see are records being broken, why don't we encourage the use of steroids? I mean, seriously, chicks dig the long ball, right? So let's go all out...let's mandate that every player use HGH's and corks bats and everything else that will help them gain a better chance at beating the records. It'll be way more entertaining, after all...

[StormShadow]

With regard to there being no proof, I see the situation this way: I am willing to separate that part of me which is pragmatic and by the book with that part of me that is the impassioned baseball fan. Lacking the necessary proof that would prevent him from holding the record asterisk free or keep him from the Hall of Fame, I think that you've got to let him have both. If I'm a sports writer casting my vote, Bonds is in the Hall of Fame, absolutely. One must think like a machine when concerning matters of legitimacy. But we fans are human. We love our game, and when the integrity of the sport is compromised, we mourn for it. The greatest record in sports is about to be broken by a cheater, and all those who say they want Bonds to break the record seem woefully unconcerned for the purity or honor of baseball.

I can see your point a bit, but when you talk about integrity, what about the owners, managers, other players, writers and yes even the Commissioner. You mean to tell me that all these people who are around the game and players pretty much 24/7 have integrity? There is no way you can tell me that those people had no clue what was going on. They knew and turned a blind eye to it. So if Bonds is guilty so are all the others who did nothing to stop it. Integrity has never been in the game of baseball, look at all the pitchers who put sand paper in their belts and vasoline on the hat brims, are they upholding honor and integrity for the game, after all that is still considered cheating....is it? I mean there is

Whitey Ford, member of the Hall-Of-Fame, winner of 236 regular season games and 10 more in the World Series, was a cheater! He admitted it! Ford talked about loading the ball with mud during the 1963 World Series. Whitey says he, "used enough mud to build a dam!" There was the ring he used to cut the ball, never mind the assistance from the buckles on the shin guards of batterymate Elston Howard. Or how about the mixture of oil, turpentine and resin he would apply to the ball from a roll on deodorant bottle. There's no asterisk on Ford's plaque at the Hall-Of-Fame or next to any of his regular season or World Series wins.

Gaylord Perry was probably the most prolific cheater of my generation. Would he have won 314 games without the various lubricants he put on the ball. There were several, he talks about all of them in his book! Perry is a Hall-Of-Famer.

Tim Tschida went out to investigate claims by the California Angels that the Twins Joe Niekro was doctoring the baseball? During Tschida's search, the "smoking gun," a piece of sandpaper falls out of Niekro's back pocket! Niekro won 221 major league baseball games (not in hall).


George Brett of the Kansas City Royals came to bat with the Royals down, 4-3. He slammed a two-run tater off of Goose Gossage, giving the Royals the lead. By the time Brett had made it to the dugout, though, Yankee manager Billy Martin (acting on the advice of Graig Nettles, who, perhaps prompted by the superball incident, had read the rulebook) was protesting to home plate umpire Tim McClelland. McClelland asked for Brett's bat, examined it while conferring with his crew, and then called Brett out for having too much pine tar on his bat. According to the rules then, pine tar and similar substances couldn't be higher than 18 inches from the bat handle; Brett's bat was covered up to 19 or 20 inches. After the enraged Brett had been ejected for arguing the unusual call, the Yankees went on to win 4-3. The Royals protested the game, and AL president Lee McPhail overturned McClelland's ruling, reinstating Brett's homer.

John McGraw
In the field, wrote Geoffrey C. Ward and Ken Burns in "Baseball: An Illustrated History," the 155-pound McGraw "held far bigger base runners back by the belt, blocked them, tripped them, spiked them -- and rarely complained when they did the same to him." He was known to grab onto runners belts as they were rounding third, and grab the belt loops of runners tagging up at third. "He uses every low and contemptible method that his erratic brain can conceive to win a play by a dirty trick," wrote one reporter


I could keep going about HOF'ers who cheated and cheated big time, but yet there is no asterisk next to their names, most people have either forgotten about them or just dont give a damn about their cheating..............so why is Bonds and the whole steroid ERA held up to a different standard?

Now it may sound like I support cheaters, but the fact of the matter is..........I dont, I just look at both sides of things and sadly this is a one sided matter because of the record he is close to breaking.




I ask anyone who supports Bonds...if we didn't care that the holders of our records are cheaters, if all we really wanted to see are records being broken, why don't we encourage the use of steroids? I mean, seriously, chicks dig the long ball, right? So let's go all out...let's mandate that every player use HGH's and corks bats and everything else that will help them gain a better chance at beating the records. It'll be way more entertaining, after all...

Because without a script Steroids are in the same class as Crack, weed, Heroin...............they are illegal, so they cant be promoted, not to mention they are truly bad for you.

Here is the point, it was an ERA and while Bonds might be the biggest star from that time period.........which I would argue, is it cheating when most of baseball was doing is doing it? If you truly believe Bonds is guilty of having no honor or integrity you would be naive to believe that your favorite player from that era is not guilty of the same, so are going to hang your favorite player without evidence..........hard evidence. Hell Mitchell has been going at this for what.....year, year and a half and still has not come up with anything, why are the fans acting like he was indicted? People are hanging Bonds on the premise that he was on Roids..............but once again.......so was most of baseball of at that time, so why single out Bonds?

I dont support Bonds...........hell I dont even like the man as person since he gave me the cold shoulder MANY years ago, but as I said before I do look at both sides of the coin.

[Fireball]

If we started keeping cheaters out of the Hall of Fame (that includes everyone who violates the written rules of the game), there would be a substantial reduction in the number of players who do it. Proof required, of course. As I said, until Bonds fails a piss test, he's Hall of Fame bound. However, until baseball adopts truly harsh punishments...and I'm talking season-long suspensions for rules violations and broken policies, this kind of thing will continue to happen, and we fans will have to continue to either root for people we know to be dirty, or simply give up. Yes, coaches and administrators have as much dirt on their hands, and that's part of the great tragedy this port is suffering. But Bonds and all his fellow 'roid users, bat corkers, and spitballers need to see some real consequences, or else it will never change.

The simple one-sided fact is Barry Bonds would not have broken this record without steroids, and to root for him would be to dismiss this illegal and unjust fact...and that's something I can not do.

(And Griffey would NEVER use steroids! I doubt I'm naive about that.)

[StormShadow]

If we started keeping cheaters out of the Hall of Fame (that includes everyone who violates the written rules of the game), there would be a substantial reduction in the number of players who do it. Proof required, of course. As I said, until Bonds fails a piss test, he's Hall of Fame bound. However, until baseball adopts truly harsh punishments...and I'm talking season-long suspensions for rules violations and broken policies, this kind of thing will continue to happen, and we fans will have to continue to either root for people we know to be dirty, or simply give up. Yes, coaches and administrators have as much dirt on their hands, and that's part of the great tragedy this port is suffering. But Bonds and all his fellow 'roid users, bat corkers, and spitballers need to see some real consequences, or else it will never change.

The simple one-sided fact is Barry Bonds would not have broken this record without steroids, and to root for him would be to dismiss this illegal and unjust fact...and that's something I can not do.

(And Griffey would NEVER use steroids! I doubt I'm naive about that.)

Ok, but you said there should be an asterisk next Bonds name in the hall of fame, next to his record. If they do that then there would asterisks next to many great players name.....if you do it for one you must do it for all. Now mind you all these cheating Hall Of famers are guilty seeing how there is proof, but was anything made of it at the time....no, did the media act like sharks, nope. Was there all this hoopla over sand paper, sharpening spikes, spitball etc.....nope. So I ask you again.....why the double standard for Bonds? Fans did not rip Niekro, Brett, Otis, Cobb or any of the others who cheated AND there was proof of them cheating, but yet there is no proof on Bonds and people are writing him off as if there is proof, so there is a double standard from one era to the next and its not right.

The simple one-sided fact is Barry Bonds would not have broken this record without steroids, and to root for him would be to dismiss this illegal and unjust fact...and that's something I can not do.

Now that is your opinion, but obviously you are to young to remember how good of a player he really was in his younger years. Is this a fact..........nope (cant be proven in anyway shape and or form) this again is YOUR opinion, which in my opinion is somewhat uneducated (please dont take that as I'm trying to insult your intelligence, because I'm not). To many young people that are writing off Bonds only know what they see in past films, by stats or word of mouth......which does not tell the whole story.

to root for him would be to dismiss this illegal and unjust fact...and that's something I can not do.

Then you cant root for baseball as a whole in the 90's, because after all it was the ERA.........not just Bonds. Dont forget, no one REALLY knows who was on what, so if you find it unjust to root for Bonds then you should not be rooting for most if not all players during that ERA. Dont forget one of Bonds long time friends is Griffey Jr, if you dont believe me watch the early interviews with them, not to mention when this whole steroids thing started a few years ago, Bond was interviewed outside of Griffey's home after having dinner. Not to mention Bonds Sr. and Griffey Sr were good friends as well, does this mean Griffey took anything.......who knows, but there is a chance he did, just like there is a chance Clemens, Manny,Thome,Ripken, Belle, Jeter, A-Rod, etc.............................so yes I would say it is kind of naive of you to say Griffey did not take roids, it is naive for anyone to say that one certain player did not do something during that era, because NO ONE knows the truth. You may want to BELIEVE that a player did not take something, but yet again...........no one truly knows...........only time will tell and the truth WILL come out in do time. When the truth comes out will Bonds be found guilty..................very good chance, but MANY other players will be found guilty as well, and possibly your favorite player will be in there. So what happens if your favorite player is found to be guilty in 10 years..........are you going to hang him...............probably not, because like every other fan you and many others will find every excuse in the book and push it away, because it is human nature to defend your beliefs, just like it is human nature for every politician to lie just to make their pockets bigger.

Also there is one thing you must not forget, during this ERA the only thing that was ILLEGAL was anabolic steroids, because they are illegal to possess if you they are not prescribed, if prescribed they are now considered legal nation wide. Baseball did not have a drug testing policy then so if the drugs were not illegal to posses they were legal in the game so to speak, because there was no way to inforce anything.................why there was no testing/rules is beyond me. So depending on who took what not everything taken was illegal.

[Fireball]

I believe I said that Bonds should be in the Hall and the record should stand without an asterisk lacking necessary proof....

And though it was an era, I can make educated judgments about which players are dirty and which ones I choose to shun. That's why the media is such a cool and muckraking resource. If it's heavily apparent that a player has cheated, then that's simple, I don't root for him, and I don't want him on my team. Has anything come out about Griffey, or Soriano, or many great players of today? No. There's a possibility, of course. Bonds has helped sully the name of those good players along with the era of which you speak. If it takes a major wave of expulsions from Major League Baseball, I would support that in order to make the game as pristine as possible. As pristine as it should be. Just because he's representative of a larger whole doesn't mean we shouldn't be mad at Bonds, or hate him for the poison he's delivered to the sport we treasure. On the contrary. His presence will only contribute to the notion that steroids can help make you great, insuring that more and more players of future major league generations will condition themselves until we're no longer rooting for athletes...we're rooting for bionic supermen. Mutants. I am not naive in rooting for players who have no known dirt on them. If it were Cal Ripken chasing this record, or somebody who had the integrity and righteousness to play this game right, I'd have no problem. No one would. You can't seem to understand that. Just because there's no concrete proof on Bonds (yet) is no reason to cheer him on. We've seen the evidence, we have our common sense, and the public is the jury.
The difference is not the time period, the difference is the player. You needlessly complicate situations that aren't complicated. Do you want this record held by a cheater or not? That's the question that everyone should ask themselves.

[StormShadow]

I believe I said that Bonds should be in the Hall and the record should stand without an asterisk lacking necessary proof....

And though it was an era, I can make educated judgments about which players are dirty and which ones I choose to shun. That's why the media is such a cool and muckraking resource. If it's heavily apparent that a player has cheated, then that's simple, I don't root for him, and I don't want him on my team. Has anything come out about Griffey, or Soriano, or many great players of today? No. There's a possibility, of course. Bonds has helped sully the name of those good players along with the era of which you speak. If it takes a major wave of expulsions from Major League Baseball, I would support that in order to make the game as pristine as possible. As pristine as it should be. Just because he's representative of a larger whole doesn't mean we shouldn't be mad at Bonds, or hate him for the poison he's delivered to the sport we treasure. On the contrary. His presence will only contribute to the notion that steroids can help make you great, insuring that more and more players of future major league generations will condition themselves until we're no longer rooting for athletes...we're rooting for bionic supermen. Mutants. I am not naive in rooting for players who have no known dirt on them. If it were Cal Ripken chasing this record, or somebody who had the integrity and righteousness to play this game right, I'd have no problem. No one would. You can't seem to understand that. Just because there's no concrete proof on Bonds (yet) is no reason to cheer him on. We've seen the evidence, we have our common sense, and the public is the jury.
The difference is not the time period, the difference is the player. You needlessly complicate situations that aren't complicated. Do you want this record held by a cheater or not? That's the question that everyone should ask themselves.


Your very good at avoiding the questions. I have asked many times why is Bonds different than any other cheater in baseball, because after all you believe Bonds is guilty so cheating is cheating.............isnt it? Also dont forget this all started with Caminiti for the most part.

Do you want this record held by a cheater or not? That's the question that everyone should ask themselves.

Obviously you have your views on this and I have mine and it is great to an adult debate with someone who is passionate about this. The thing is you are calling him a cheater because that is YOUR view and making it sound like a fact....when its not, how can you call someone a cheater without knowing.............yes this goes back to the proof factor. It is your right to have any view you want, but I just dont agree with the fact that a opinion with nothing solid backing it people are calling others cheaters, but they dont know the whole story or even a good part of it.

The public being the jury, but yet the jury is being poisoned by bias writers who have hated Bonds for many years and will write and say anything to throw him under the bus. If the media portrayed Bonds in a happy light for his career this would be playing differently, so alot of people's negative views are fueled by and unfair bias of writers.

Just because he's representative of a larger whole doesn't mean we shouldn't be mad at Bonds, or hate him for the poison he's delivered to the sport we treasure

You are making it sound like Bonds is the Antichrist of baseball, but dont forget Palmeiro, Caminiti, Canseco, Gaimbi, Benito Santiago, Wally Joyner, and the list goes on for the players who admitted to using steroids, so why is Bonds the damned child? Whether Bonds is bigger than the rest is not even relevant here. There are big names that have come forward and admitted to using them, so why arent they being hated by the public as well. Didnt they help to bring the poison into the sport?

And though it was an era, I can make educated judgments about which players are dirty and which ones I choose to shun.

When you say educated do you mean, by how big they are, how far they are hitting a ball? Take Jason Grimsley no one would ever suspect him or Palmeiro of using, because they did not change in size. So they flew under the presses radar for god knows how long, but yet neither are in baseball anymore because of testing positive. Steroids dont always make you bigger, so IF and I stress IF, you are basing your views on who is suspect or not, by size increase of a player and how far a ball goes you are missing the bigger picture on steroids. How can people make educated views when they know nothing or very little about the whole situation? Most people associate Steroids with size and temper, but there is the healing effect of them as well, so you dont always get big and therefore there are no signs for the public to view, which leads to bias views yet again. So that leaves the players who are getting bigger to bare the burden of punishment, when there are many other players who are doing the same unjust things, but are getting away with it.

Just because there's no concrete proof on Bonds (yet) is no reason to cheer him on.

And why not cheer for him, if he is not guilty of anything, there is no reason not to.........as of yet. You say Bonds is tainted and I say ALL OF baseball is tainted....still, so if I dont cheer for bonds then I should not cheer for any player from that ERA because my personal view is the VAST majority of baseball was on it, so until I have proof of who was and was not juiced I will keep the same point of view. So by me not cheer for Bonds it makes me a hypocrite every time I cheer on Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome, or Roger Clemens, because of my views as a whole. It really does sadden me to see baseball where it is today, but the sad truth is you and I both only know the one ERA and that is the steroid ERA.

We've seen the evidence

We have? The only thing I have seen is a MESS of players getting bigger in a short time span and now players getting hurt at an alarming rate, so I hardly consider that evidence only against Bonds.

[milky_way]

And though it was an era, I can make educated judgments about which players are dirty and which ones I choose to shun.
Can you really? I mean, before his test results became public, did you judge Neifi Perez to be dirty?

That's why the media is such a cool and muckraking resource. If it's heavily apparent that a player has cheated, then that's simple, I don't root for him, and I don't want him on my team. Has anything come out about Griffey, or Soriano, or many great players of today? No. There's a possibility, of course. Bonds has helped sully the name of those good players along with the era of which you speak.
If Jose Conseco wrote that A-Rod took steroids in his next book, would that be enough evidence for you to stop rooting for him (if you do)? Do you consider Miguel Tejada clean? How about David Ortiz? Pudge Rodriguez?

Don't get me wrong, I don't support Bonds (although that has more to do with him being an asshole than him taking steroids), and I am hoping that he has a sudden ephiphany and decides to retire tomorrow before breaking the record. I think he took steroids, but my opinion hardly counts as damning evidence. Its a very shaky thing to draw a line between the players who took steroids and the players who didn't. The bottom line is that we don't know and we'll probably never know. This really is a steroids era. Unless they've failed a drug test, drawing lines based on what the media reports is quite an arbitrary endeavor.

Here's a question: what if Miguel Tejada was about to break the homerun record? (I know, hard to imagine, but bear with me) Would you root for him to break it, or would you root for him to fail, seeing as his name has been casually brought up in steroids discussions before?

[Fireball]

Of course there's an obvious difference between Miguel Tejada and Barry Bonds. When talking about Barry Bonds having heaping evidence against him, I'm talking of course about every BALCO connection (the most damning of which is probably Greg Anderson, but there are others), a trainer who is in jail right now because he refuses to testify against Bonds, the records that Anderson kept of the steroids that Bonds received, and the hundreds of interviews from players and others alike implicating him as a steroid user. None of this matters to baseball, and that's the law of the land, but this is much more complicated than just the fact that he's gotten bigger and his numbers spiked. If a player grew in size, I might be suspicious (as I am of A-Rod), but I wouldn't be ready to boo him just because of that. But when the mountain of evidence grows so high (as it has with Sosa and McGwire, which is regrettable as I loved McGwire), then it because impossible for me as a fan to support them.
I've been around to see Mariner starting pitcher Ryan Franklin, a lanky drink of water, be suspended for steroids, and it's definitely upsetting...and as a result, his career is now effectively over, and it should be. Anyone who's busted for roids should be shunned by the fans and their team, as Palmeiro was. That kind of concrete proof hasn't been supplied against Bonds, and therefore he'll continue to chase the record, whether I like it or not. That's just the way it goes. But if we're going to ever have purity in our game, then we as fans can not continue to look the other way. When Sosa was caught with a corked bat, we shrugged our shoulders and were lenient because, hey...he just wanted to give the people at batting practice a show. A slap on the wrists should be well enough. When Bonds breaks the record, people will applaud because they believe that he was just leveling the playing field as per the rest of his era, or else they don't believe at all. That's not good enough.
And if a guy like Griffey or Jay Buhner were somehow found out to have used steroids ten years after their retirement, I would not make excuses. That's wrong. I would be crushed. Devastated. That's the kind of hope and faith that we invest in our athletes, because we believe them to be honest players. There's no excuse that overrides the instance of cheating in a sport that means so much to so many.

[Thedatch]

innocent until PROVEN guilty. Not educatedly guessed to be guilty.

[Fireball]

innocent until PROVEN guilty. Not educatedly guessed to be guilty.

You're talking about the legal system, I'm talking about being a fan.

[Thedatch]

You're talking about the legal system, I'm talking about being a fan.

fair enough, but you don't feel at all bad that you're judging this player without any real provable evidence? Plenty of circumstantial evidence sure, but...

[StormShadow]

Of course there's an obvious difference between Miguel Tejada and Barry Bonds. When talking about Barry Bonds having heaping evidence against him, I'm talking of course about every BALCO connection (the most damning of which is probably Greg Anderson, but there are others), a trainer who is in jail right now because he refuses to testify against Bonds, the records that Anderson kept of the steroids that Bonds received, and the hundreds of interviews from players and others alike implicating him

But Tejada is under heavy suspicion just as much as Bonds, but the media likes him a bit more so they dont keep trying to brain wash the general public. So you KNOW that hundreds of players told investigators Bonds was juicing...........I have not read one single report where a player said "I saw Bonds juice", other than Canseco who as everyone knows has another agenda so his word is tainted more than anyone else. I would like to read these hundreds of players interviews, to my knowledge Mitchell did not release ANY of the transcripts for the investigation, so it then there turns into the media playing words again..

So because Anderson is does not want to testify that makes Bonds guilty? While it might not make Bonds look good or help him, it does not justify guilt either.....stupidity yes, guilt no. If Anderson's records said BARRY BONDS bought this, this and that, then they would have enough evidence to indict him, which they dont.....not to mention that would also be more than enough for a search warrant on Bonds, which has not been issues either. Right now they have a better chance on getting Bonds on tax evasion then they do a steroids.

Everything above is speculation, there is nothing that points to any guilt.........most if not all of it is hearsay. I Hate Bonds for his coldness, and his attitude, that does not mean I should damn him on suspicion, because I dont like his views, attitude etc....

I dont know if you mean to, but you are making it sound like you have read the Mitchell files and some others that have not been released.

I've been around to see Mariner starting pitcher Ryan Franklin, a lanky drink of water, be suspended for steroids, and it's definitely upsetting...and as a result, his career is now effectively over, and it should be.

He is pitching for the Cards right now on there Active Roster, so his career is not over.

. If a player grew in size, I might be suspicious (as I am of A-Rod), but I wouldn't be ready to boo him just because of that.

All you have on Bonds is speculation and suspicious, so why is A-Rod different.

Anyone who's busted for roids should be shunned by the fans and their team, as Palmeiro was

I agree with this statement 100%

've been around to see Mariner starting pitcher Ryan Franklin, a lanky drink of water, be suspended for steroids, and it's definitely upsetting

Ok, so you see my point how you never can tell who is on what. He was not big, did not develop a temper, there was none of the generic signs of juicing, but yet he was caught. So if people could not tell he was using, how can they say Cal, Griffey, Manny, Thome, Clemens or any other player is not or was not using? This is why I say it is naive for ANYONE, myself included to think that their favorite player(s) are innocent just because there is no signs and at that time there was no testing in place to prove anything.

But if we're going to ever have purity in our game, then we as fans can not continue to look the other way

While I agree with this statement to a point, sports in general will never be clean, because as testing gets better, so does the technology to deceive. We as fans have no clue who is on what, while we can speculate all we want, it is not up to the fans anymore because....we just dont know. How can you actively change things when you cant tell what is wrong, prime example is Franklin. It is up to the GM's, Managers, Trainers, Doctors and all others who are around these players everyday to stop turning a blind eye to what is going on. If these people take a no nonsense stand and the players know this then there will be no choice but to change. Those are the only people aside from the players who can change this, because they are the only ones that know the truth. While we as the general public speculate about players we truly dont know who is on juice and who is not. The people that know what is REALLY going on behind closed doors are the trainers who train them daily, the team doctors who see the signs and choose to ignore them, the managers that see the changes etc......... There is nothing left that us as fans can do until the proof is there. Once proof is present we as fans have to unite and stand our ground, until then the fans hands our tied.

When Bonds breaks the record, people will applaud because they believe that he was just leveling the playing field as per the rest of his era, or else they don't believe at all. That's not good enough.

No people will applaud because there is no proof, that is all. Speculation is no reason to damn a person..............guilt is and to prove guilt you need proof. Hell the man has not even been charged with ANYTHING

There's no excuse that overrides the instance of cheating in a sport that means so much to so many.

Correct, so why was this not stopped..........80+ years ago??? Players have been cheating forever and it will never stop, so I will ask again

Why is Bonds different than any other cheater.....assuming he is caught cheating?

[SoxADdict615]

Unfortunately we will never be able to determine whether or not the players from early on used steroids, which I highly doubt, but where BB has openly admitted to using "performance enhancers" his record should definitely go down with an asterisk next to his total.

[StormShadow]

Unfortunately we will never be able to determine whether or not the players from early on used steroids, which I highly doubt, but where BB has openly admitted to using "performance enhancers" his record should definitely go down with an asterisk next to his total.

What about Cobb, Perry, Niekro, Brett, etc... all of them were CAUGHT cheating right in front of thousands of people and there is no asterik next to their names in Cooperstown? SO yet again, why is Bonds different?

[suedon70]

What about Cobb, Perry, Niekro, Brett, etc... all of them were CAUGHT cheating right in front of thousands of people and there is no asterik next to their names in Cooperstown? SO yet again, why is Bonds different?

Agree with you there. As I'm writing this Bonds has hit #755. I know that he is under more scrutiny than the players you mentioned because he is on the verge of breaking one of the most respected records in baseball, but as a baseball fan (not a Barry Bonds fan) I honestly wish people would leave him be and celebrate this achievement.....

[Fireball]

Agree with you there. As I'm writing this Bonds has hit #755. I know that he is under more scrutiny than the players you mentioned because he is on the verge of breaking one of the most respected records in baseball, but as a baseball fan (not a Barry Bonds fan) I honestly wish people would leave him be and celebrate this achievement.....

Why?

[StormShadow]

Why?

LOL havent we just covered this in the last 3 pages? :D


Unless you are asking her for her personal opinion, then I will let her answer it, but if not.............well there is many post in here to read.

[xCHILLINx]

true. even if bonds did take steriods, they would not make him a home run hitting machine. it takes bat speed to hit um.

also, Bonds has been hitting home runs since the 80's and im pretty sure he didnt use steroids back then. so ill stand up and clap for him once he breaks the record.

its quite an accomplishment. until A-Rod hits number 800

[Rockin Robin]

I heard that just about every fan at Petco stood up to give him an ovation after his homer. :thumbsup:

[StormShadow]

I heard that just about every fan at Petco stood up to give him an ovation after his homer. :thumbsup:

Classy :)

[metsguy]

But you dont know how many pitchers use the stuff.

[StormShadow]

But you dont know how many pitchers use the stuff.

See and that is part of my point. How many pitchers were using when they gave up home runs to Bonds, no one will ever know. There is no way of knowing who was doing what, so therefore if someone is going to speculate and hate on Bonds for the unknown then they need to take a step back and look at their favorite players and ask the question "was/is he using"?

[metsguy]

I guess its fair but in order for the to put a little syringe sybol next to his name in the record books they would need to have some stone cold proof

[StormShadow]

Well Bonds is the all time leader :D


Now the REAL haters are going to crawl out of the wood work, with little to no reason to hate, except speculation, suspicion..............and yet the sage goes on

[Rockin Robin]

It cannot be disputed that Barry Bonds holds the record for career home runs.

It cannot be disputed that Barry Bonds is an incredible baseball player that sees the ball better than almost any other player ever has.

These are the only facts. Everything else are just opinions.

[metsguy]

New fact it can not be disputed bonds used steroids

[Rockin Robin]

New fact it can not be disputed bonds used steroids

That has not been proven, so it is not a fact.

[metsguy]

Lol alright but it also wasn't proven that OJ DID IT.
Well i guess it would be a disaster for baseball if Bonds got caught. I think thtere gonna w8 till after he retires

[Fireball]

It's sort of strange to think about...Barry Bonds is the home run king. Expecting I would be bitter about it, I was sort of surprised to feel nothing but a sort of downtrodden sadness. Sadness for baseball that the greatest record ever has a cloud of suspicion over it, sad that it had to be broken by a man who has less class in his entire body then Aaron does in his little pinky, sad that I found no joy in a moment that I should have been ecstatic about. Of the few records I've seen broken, this should be the one I want to remember, but I don't want to remember it. It hurts to much to think about. And it's not just the body of evidence that's out there that leads me to believe he used steroids which aided him towards the record, and it's not just that he's a jerk...it's also the communal factor. Everyone on earth should be applauding the destruction of the home run record, and yet no one can talk about it without the question. As much as I'd like to believe he didn't do it, it's just a shame.

On another note, I was shocked to see Aaron's eloquent and conciliatory message shown after the homer. That monologue nearly made me cry, as I remembered reading "I Had a Hammer" for the first time. I thought about what a great player, and what a great man Hank Aaron is. I thought about how he is everything baseball is about, and everything it represents, and I thought about how much Bonds is not.

It's a fascinating but emotionally draining day to be a baseball fan.

[MR.Hometeam]

OK... So it seems there's a bit of controversy on steroids... First off, don't forget its a free country, so that means we each can do as we wish. Don't forget the first ammendment which clearly allows anybody to do pretty much whatever the heck we want!... or have you forgotten that?

[Fireball]

OK... So it seems there's a bit of controversy on steroids... First off, don't forget its a free country, so that means we each can do as we wish. Don't forget the first ammendment which clearly allows anybody to do pretty much whatever the heck we want!... or have you forgotten that?

Huh?:ugh:

[Rockin Robin]

Huh?:ugh:

Just ignore him.

[StormShadow]

Just ignore him.

Very well said, I just have his posted on my ignore list :)

Well now that the chase is over, lets see if Mitchell and Selig can stop talking out of their a$$ and produce some solid evidence so people can stop speculating and either give Bonds his props or crucify him..........either prove it so the masses can hate him and have something to truly hate him for other than speculation and suspicion, or admit there is not enough evidence and lets try to repair this sad time in the history of baseball. Sadly whether Mitchell is successful or not in proving or disproving Bonds was on juice this is the biggest blackeye baseball could ever get and I dont think the scar will every fully heal, no matter how much surgery is done to it and makeup added............fireball is correct this is a sad day for baseball as a whole.

Whether you are a hater, lover or a fighter there is no denying baseball has been hurt.

Now on a side note, if fans want to remember Bonds.......or any other great player for just 1 record tainted or untainted then you are a sad, sad person and should not be called a fan, a true baseball fan is like a true player......... your memory is like no other, you remember the good, the bad and the truly ugly.....you never remember just one thing.

While people say baseball is a game of numbers....which is it to a point, but not for a true fan. A true fan does not care about the numbers so much, but instead they care about the way baseball makes them feel and the place it holds in their heart and soul.......it is also a game of intelligence and entertainment. Lets not forget players go out on the field everyday to show off their hard work and talent to entertain the masses.......yes they get paid on a scale that is out of this world, but when all is said and done, at the end of the day when the stadiums are quite, the roads are dead and we are sleeping dreaming our dirty little dreams the game of baseball is still just a game designed to entertain and that is all, nothing more nothing less.

Do you remember great bands for just one song, or great actors/actresses for just one movie........probably not, while they have their flagship movies/songs very few....if any true greats will ever only have one thing to be remembered by, so lets not forget that Bonds is not just a power hitter that broke a record (just a bunch of numbers) under speculation, but that he is a fantastic rare 5 tool baseball player as well. While some of you might be to young to remember, but Bonds was a lock for the Hall of Fame back in 1995-96 BEFORE he became huge.............but as time goes on the the sad truth is, guilty or not Bonds will only be remembered as the Antichrist that brought down baseball and that is a tragedy like no other.

Is Bonds guilty of juicing.........I have my assumptions and suspicions, but was Joe Jackson SUSPECTED of throwing the Series? Joe Jackson's career ended in a cloud of controversy that was never cleared up and so he drifted off into oblivion as one of the 8 Black Sox who threw the series. As father time goes on we are finding out that Shoeless Joe, never really did throw the series, but yet under speculation and media falsities he was kicked out of baseball forever...............Shoeless Joe's career is only remembered for being 1 of The Black 8 (my own name for them) and that too is a tragedy because people have pushed aside the fact that he really was a GREAT ball player.............not to mention there was never any proof to his guilt and yet his legacy was ruined, by speculation and assumptions. now Bonds has not been kicked out, but I will say this.............I 'll be damned if the Bonds saga does not sound Eriely similar to Shoeless Joe's.

So my point is, try not to ONLY remember Bonds as a villain, because the truth has not been told as of yet.

Well I'm sure we will be back here arguing the same points in 6 years or so when A-Rod starts to approach the record............................................ ..................................

[kcroyals5]

i think they should put an asterisk next to it. but i also think he should be banned for life!

[Old Sweater]

i think they should put an asterisk next to it. but i also think he should be banned for life!

At this point of time..........based on what? If it's PED's you can take a chisel down to the HOF and remove some names for days if you go by assumption.

[StormShadow]

At this point of time..........based on what? If it's PED's you can take a chisel down to the HOF and remove some names for days if you go by assumption.



At this point I REFUSE to respond to any of these one liners. If someone wants to post a view with nothing backing it, there is no use in responding to it IMO.

[cuongnet]

I want to lose 10 lbs. But i would like to do some exercises at home. My friend advise me to buy a treadmill. I get it from ATAFA sports goods online store. I'm going to do some exercises one hour per day.

[HitAndRun]

Hey the man used steroids! hes a cheater and deserves the dash next to his name. But, steroids dont cause a person to hit a 100 mph fast ball. People need to put that into consideration.

[Rockin Robin]

....But, steroids dont cause a person to hit a 100 mph fast ball. People need to put that into consideration.

That's what I keep saying.

He sees the ball better than almost anyone in the game ever has. You don't get [almost] 3,000 hits because of steroids.

[sfgiantslover]

I just want to get an idea on how many people agree that if in fact if Barry Bonds exceeds Hank Aaron's home run record they should score it but put a dash next to the record. I completely agree with this.Do you think Babe Ruth used steroids..no..so its not fair!

Bonds did it fair and square. Innocent until proven guilty. Even if he did it, you have to hit the ball on the sweet spot to get a homerun, its about skill not power.

[YoungSports]

Bonds did it fair and square. Innocent until proven guilty. Even if he did it, you have to hit the ball on the sweet spot to get a homerun, its about skill not power.

actually bond admitted he took steroids! i'll give you the fact that he's an amazing hitter and deserves to be in the hall of fame because he was a great player before he started using the juice but Bonds doesn't deserve the home run record.