Alvarez and Rivera

[3-2 Changeup]

What's the skinny on Tony Alvarez and Carlos Rivera? Both appear to be having good years at Altoona. Given Littlefield's repeated position that minor league players won't be rushed I don't expect to see them in Nashville this year, but it would seem from the stats that both, especially Rivera given KYs decline and no good glove man on the ML roster to play 1B, would be candidates for promotion.

[imgreat95]

This is really the first season that Rivera has put up good numbers at all. I would expect him to stay in altoona this season to show that he can remain consistent.

Alvarez, I would expect to get a September call-up.

[GiveHyzduashot]

I don't expect Alvarez to get a September callup unless he plays at Nashville. And like 32 said, given Littlefield's and Graham's current stance, I doubt if Alvarez plays at AAA at all.

So no ... I don't think we can see Alvarez in Pittsburgh this season.

[imgreat95]

i would actually be surprised if Alvarez doesn't get a September call-up. Generally, the guys who get called up in September are among the guys who were the final cuts in spring training. Especially those who had a good year. I don't think a September call-up would stunt Alvarez's growth at all, but rather quite the opposite. September call-ups, especially for a team out of the race, are generally a good guage of how close someone is or isn't to being ready for the Majors.

[GiveHyzduashot]

In theory I agree with you. But DL and Graham (I forget his first name) have said they want guys to play a whole year at one level to form as a team, learn to win as a team, etc. And if Alvarez doesn't get promoted to Nashville, I find it hard to believe DL would promote him two levels.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing Alvarez get "a cup of coffee" in September. But it contradicts what the scouting coordinator and DL have said.

Of course, if there is no September baseball, this is a moot discussion right now. :angry:

[imgreat95]

a september call-up is not a "promotion" as much as it is an evaluation. By the time September call-ups occur, most minor league seasons are very close to being over. Therefore, they will have already played a full season at AA. Fact is this, when you call a guy up in September, it is to see how he fits into your future plans. How many guys who are at AAA do we already know DON'T fit into our future plans? Alvarez, we at least know IS part of our future. Or at least should be looked at as being such.

[GiveHyzduashot]

Promotion, evaluation, call it what you wish, but it still contradicts what DL has said. However, as seen by Lincoln being demoted, he has contradicted himself before.

[imgreat95]

it doesn't contradict a thing. The AA season will be over. For teams which are out of the race, september callups are no different than spring training. You look and see how what you have in your system stacks up against major league talent. Especially those who are projected to be in the lineup within a year or two. It doesn't contradict anything. He said he wants to see a player have success for a full year before moving on to the next level. By September callup time, the AA season will be over, and hopefully Alvarez will have had a year of success there. But, even if he IS brought up, he will be brought up knowing that he will most likely begin next season at AAA.

[GiveHyzduashot]

Shawn, Littlefield and Graham both have said several times they do not want to rush players to the big leagues. If Alvarez is brought up having never faced AAA pitching, I'd say that's rushing him to the big leagues.

Rushing may be a strong adjective, and it won't be as bad as what Bonifay has done, but if Alvarez is brought up having never seen AAA pitching before, it is "advancing" him to the big leagues too soon, for the lack of a better description.

[imgreat95]

ok josh, then how else in the world do you propose that we find out how close a guy is to being ready? That's what a september call-up IS! Who else are we going to call up aside from guys who will fit into your future plan to see where they stand? A guy who gets called up in September, MAY see a total of 15 ABs. That is hardly enough to look at it as rushing him in any way. It is just as much to give guys a "taste" of what the big leageus are like in order to give them more "desire" to play harder. And also to give them the same few ABs that they would get in spring training. That is the way it has been in this organization since the 70s.

[GiveHyzduashot]

A player with Alvarez's potential shouldn't have to have a stronger desire to get to the big leagues based on 15 at bats. If the player almost made the team coming out of Spring Training, THAT should be enough motivation for the player. Not a token 15 at bats.

[imgreat95]

potential doesn't mean a thing. What else is Alvarez going to do if he deosn't get a callup? Go home and wait for spring training to start again. If I am the GM, I would rather have him playing ball.

That being said, I see we are not going to agree on this subject, so I'm done.

[GiveHyzduashot]

You missed my point, Shawn.

Tony Alvarez should be no more motivated to reach the majors after 15 at bats than he was when he was one of the last cuts coming out of Spring Training.

That being said, I agree to disagree.

[imgreat95]

actuakky dude, i didn't miss your point. I just don;t agree with it. I think that you need motivation at any level. no matter how much potential or talent you have.

[3-2 Changeup]

Geez, I never imagined getting this much entertainment value out of an innocent inquiry about a couple of prospect who are having good years! :D

A September call-up is also a traditional reward for a player who has had an excellent season AND is factored into future plans. Most of those kids are glad to get the meal money.

[GiveHyzduashot]

Unless your name is Hyzdu, then a callup is just a reward for a good season and not because you're in the future plans. ;)

[00_Agent]

Well, I heard the DL comments and Graham comments and I still think that Alvarez will be called up. I don't look at it as rushing them, that's why I think they will be called up. If the men upstairs think that it is rushing them, then they won't be here. I don't read minds.