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Nanner
06-17-2002, 05:59 PM
I just find it so interesting during interleague play, how pitchers on AL teams deal with being at the plate.

Hence, here is an article that was on MLB.com about all the games played in National League Parks this weekend... :biggrin:

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06/17/2002 00:48 am ET
Pitchers take their swings
NL-only Interleague weekend proves memorable
By Paul Bodi / MLB.com

There were a whole lot of whiffs, a few memorable hits and even a little chin music. Welcome to a world without the designated hitter for the first time in 30 years.

An Interleague weekend of all games in National League parks provided a uniform set of rules. Pitchers across the board had to bat. Many looked bad. A few experienced a Major League thrill by actually getting a hit. And guys like Roger Clemens and Tim Hudson learned there is a thing called accountability.

Ready for a surprise? The guys from the American League who usually don't hit got the better of the guys from the National League who always hit. AL pitchers had 16 hits over the weekend to nine for the NL. And just to prove they were going up to the plate hacking, the AL struck out 40 times in 89 official at-bats, while the NL pitchers whiffed 24 times in 79 at-bats. No guts, no glory.

The hitting star was Shawn Estes of the Mets, who homered off Roger Clemens on Saturday. True, Estes is a National Leaguer who had homered twice before. But off a six-time Cy Young Award winner? Put that in your scrapbook!

"I was like 'Wow' running around the bases," Estes said. "It was a numb feeling. ... I was just trying not to smile. I did that in the past and I heard about it."

Some pitchers helped themselves get a "W." Jason Simontacchi of the Cardinals went 2-for-3 with an RBI on Saturday, Eric Milton of the Twins was 2-for-4 with an RBI on the same day and Derek Lowe of the Red Sox got his first Major League hit to help a rally in his win over the Braves on Sunday.

In fact, Twins pitchers went 4-for-9 with an RBI in taking two out of three from the Brewers. The Brewers walked No. 8 hitter Luis Rivas to get to Milton, who hit the first pitch into left field to bring in the decisive run.

"I've learned over the past few years if you put the ball in play, good things happen," said Milton, who is 6-for-19 with 2 RBIs in his career. "I just think that's the way baseball should be played. You get to face their pitcher and you get a chance to help yourself out."

Although he didn't get the decision Friday, Orioles starter Sidney Ponson doubled to start a rally in his team's eventual win over the Phillies.

"They don't pay me to hit, they pay me to pitch," Ponson said.

Tell that to Robert Person of the Phillies, who allowed the third hit of Ponson's career.

"He has a bat just like anybody else," Person said.

And with a bat, and in the batter's box, the AL pitcher is fair game for payback. While Estes deadpanned, "I missed my spot," after he threw one behind Clemens' knees, the purpose pitch ostensibly settled a two-year-old debt between the Mets and Yankees. To Clemens' credit, he hung in there and doubled in his next at-bat. But he bruised his right foot running the bases in the process.

There was no pitch behind Tim Hudson's knees. He walked, doubled and scored a run against San Francisco starter Jason Schmidt on Friday. He also backed Barry Bonds off the plate the first time he faced the home run king. All that added up to a 90-plus mph zinger from Schmidt under his chin in the seventh inning as he squared to bunt.

"I don't think he was trying to hit me, but it was pretty close," Hudson said. "A little scary, too."

Perhaps not as scary as watching pitchers run the bases. Orioles starter Travis Driskill pitched and "ran" his team to victory on Sunday. He walked in his first Major League at-bat, then lumbered around the bases to score on a double.


"I just kept on running and running, and it seemed like it took forever," Driskill said.

Another candidate for oxygen was 37-year-old Kenny Rogers of the Rangers. On Sunday, he walked his first at-bat, then singled in a run his next time up. Then he proceeded to steal the first base of his career, becoming only the sixth AL pitcher to do so since the inception of the DH.

"There's nothing wrong with a pitcher playing the game the way it's supposed to be played," Rogers told the Dallas Morning News.

He huffed and puffed his way back out to the mound in Houston's half of the inning, and allowed the two tying runs.

"I probably should have taken some more time before I went out to the mound after the steal," Rogers admitted. So running 90 feet can take that much off your fastball?

While there were instances of pitchers actually letting the ball find their bat, hitting's not for everybody. In Saturday's game between the Devil Rays and Marlins, A.J. Burnett struck Paul Wilson out three times. But turnabout's fair play. Wilson did a hat trick on Burnett.

Wilson, who hadn't batted since 1996, was no match for Burnett's 99-mph heater.

"That wasn't a very fair guy to go up there against for my first AB in a long time," Wilson said.

Old-time baseball -- and memories -- at its best. At least for one weekend.

Paul Bodi is a deputy managing editor for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

imgreat95
06-17-2002, 06:09 PM
That is exactly why I hate the Designated Hitter.

PissedPrincess
06-17-2002, 06:13 PM
Can you believe the AL pitchers out-hit the NL pitchers? Wow.

imgreat95
06-17-2002, 06:28 PM
Actually, it doesn't really surprise me much. I would imagine that the AL pitchers were going in with a lot more adrenaline pumping than what the NL pitchers were. I would also be interested in seeing how many walks the NL and AL pitchers drew.

Nanner
06-17-2002, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by imgreat95
Actually, it doesn't really surprise me much. I would imagine that the AL pitchers were going in with a lot more adrenaline pumping than what the NL pitchers were. I would also be interested in seeing how many walks the NL and AL pitchers drew.

I found this out. :biggrin:

According to my search, 4 AL pitchers walked yesterday, and 2 NL pitchers walked.

:biggrin:

Anything else? Coffee? Tea?

PissedPrincess
06-17-2002, 06:51 PM
Derek Lowe walked.:biggrin:

Ice coffee please.

imgreat95
06-17-2002, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Nanner


I found this out. :biggrin:

According to my search, 4 AL pitchers walked yesterday, and 2 NL pitchers walked.

:biggrin:

Anything else? Coffee? Tea?

Yes, I want something else...

How many walked during the entire weekend which they are talking about?? :biggrin:

Baseball Guru
06-17-2002, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by imgreat95
That is exactly why I hate the Designated Hitter.


AMEN!!

Nanner
06-17-2002, 08:05 PM
Originally posted by imgreat95


Yes, I want something else...

How many walked during the entire weekend which they are talking about?? :biggrin:

:hmm:

Okay, fine.

Here ya go:

7 AL pitchers

6 NL pitchers

So the Stats board at MLB only had the last 7 days, but, the first games before this weekend were all held in American League ballparks, and the only game that was all National League in that period was the Cubbies and Astros, so I figured these numbers are definitely for this weekend.

:biggrin:

Jacqui, cream and sugar in your iced coffee? :biggrin:

imgreat95
06-17-2002, 08:24 PM
well yes.. actually there is more that I would like to know... but i don't think you want to look any more..
haha

Nanner
06-17-2002, 08:29 PM
Originally posted by imgreat95
well yes.. actually there is more that I would like to know... but i don't think you want to look any more..
haha

YEAH! What am I, you're lackey?



:biggrin:


What, who issued those walks? If anyone was on base at the time? What the score was at the time of each walk?


:confused:


I bet you can find the answers to all your questions at MLB.com.

(Well, except for "What is the meaning of life?")

imgreat95
06-17-2002, 09:04 PM
well, actually, Nanner, I was wondering how many times each leasgue's pitchers were successful in sacrafic bunt attempts to move a runner over...:biggrin:


I can't go to MLB.com.. it is to otough to go there when I am downloading music.. ;)

Nanner
06-17-2002, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by imgreat95
well, actually, Nanner, I was wondering how many times each leasgue's pitchers were successful in sacrafic bunt attempts to move a runner over...:biggrin:


I can't go to MLB.com.. it is to otough to go there when I am downloading music.. ;)

:hmm:

Well, I'm sure those numbers are on the internet somewhere, and thanks for giving me a little project to be obsessed over tonight. ...... while you're downloading music.


:hmm:

imgreat95
06-17-2002, 09:23 PM
oh yeah.. they are out there somewhere.. and if i could, i really would look for them..;)

and you are welcome for giving you something to agonize over. I know that you are alwas looking for agonizing stuff..:)


My music is VEWWY VEWWY important to me...:cool:

JoeMcClenahan
06-17-2002, 09:36 PM
there is nothing wrong with the designated hitter.

imgreat95
06-17-2002, 09:49 PM
I think there is EVERYTHING wrong with the designated hitter

GiveHyzduashot
06-17-2002, 09:51 PM
there is nothing wrong with the designated hitter.

Why does that not surprise me?

There is EVERYTHING wrong with the DH. Besides all of the other stuff, it lets cowards like Clemens do stuff he would NEVER do if there was no DH.

If a pitcher is going to intentionally hit someone, then he should pay the price. Whatever happened to players actually paying for their actions? It's not right that a pitcher hits a guy on purpose, but then lets another teammate take the punishment for it.

Waiting for a three run homer is not baseball.

I could go into a million other reasons, but I won't. The sooner the DH is abolished, the better baseball will become.

Misha77Piazza
06-17-2002, 09:55 PM
Oh gawd, nothing is wrong with DH?!? Oh come on, yes, there is because the pitchers in AL are babying their arms. Dh started in 1974, right? Before they put DH in, I used to enjoy watching AL and NL games with pitchers batting because it was fun. After DH was inserted, the fun was gone in AL only......real boriiiiiiing.

imgreat95
06-17-2002, 09:55 PM
How is it fair when a NL team goes into an AL ballpark and is faced with finding a DH on their team? Heck, our DH last weekend was freaking Keith Osik. How is it fair when Our DH is Keith Osik, and they have a Tim Salmon in their lineup?

GiveHyzduashot
06-17-2002, 09:56 PM
And for the record ... I did not post before seeing Shawn's reply. I saw his reply after I had posted.

Damn, it's scary to think him and I had the exact same thought process running through our minds.

imgreat95
06-17-2002, 09:58 PM
oh josh, you know that you are happy to be thinking just like me..

3-2 Changeup
06-17-2002, 09:59 PM
And when AL pitchers like Clemens do hit gutless wimps like Estes go through the motions. Rob Dibble was right on the money.

GiveHyzduashot
06-17-2002, 10:03 PM
No Shawn, YOU are happy to be thinking like ME. :biggrin:

Chris, I don't know if Dibble was completely on target. I do think he's right Estes was wrong to laugh and joke about missing Clemens.

imgreat95
06-17-2002, 10:06 PM
no josh... I had the thought first.. that is why I said it first...

3-2 Changeup
06-17-2002, 10:09 PM
Josh, I'd drop down side arm and run one into their ribs for less. And I wasn't making a million or ten! Granted, Estes pitched a gem and he went yard. No doubt they probably would have lost if he had been manly. But he wasn't and he'll always have to live with doubt--his own and his teammates.

PissedPrincess
06-17-2002, 10:19 PM
I like the DH. There are arguments to be made for both sides.

I disagree with Josh though. The DH is not why Clemens gets away with stuff. People are afraid to retaliate. Why? I don't know.

When Pedro was younger, he threw at lots of people, and he walked up and hit always, he got hit a lot too, but it didn't and shouldn't have changed his style.

3-2 Changeup
06-17-2002, 10:22 PM
¡Pedro es muy macho!

PissedPrincess
06-17-2002, 10:26 PM
Si' senor Change-up.:biggrin:

Misha77Piazza
06-17-2002, 10:32 PM
No habla Anglias, por favor?

Parlez vous Francias, mon cheri? :biggrin:


http://www.colute.net/cwm/otn/tongue/nut.gif

GiveHyzduashot
06-18-2002, 05:26 PM
I disagree, Jacqui. If Clemens doesn't hit, how can teams retaliate against Clemens?? They can't.

Hola 32. ¿Usted habla español a menudo?

¿Por qué no podemos hablar en español, Misha?

PissedPrincess
06-18-2002, 05:31 PM
This is how Josh. Example: Shea Hillenbrand hits a GW HR off Mariano. Next day, Mariano hits Shea in head. THE NEXT GAME THEY PLAY, Pedro drills GIAMBI at every at bat.

Mariano does NOT retaliate. He, like Clemens know, if they hit a Sox player, their stars are gonna get it twice as bad.


:angel2:

GiveHyzduashot
06-18-2002, 05:35 PM
That's not retaliating against a pitcher, that's retaliating against a team.

I posted this before and I'll post it again to cover your situation.

If a pitcher is going to intentionally hit someone, then he should pay the price. Whatever happened to players actually paying for their actions? It's not right that a pitcher hits a guy on purpose, but then lets another teammate take the punishment for it.

If Clemens is going to hit someone, HE should be the person a team retaliates against ... not another superstar, the one who did the "crime" for lack of a better word.

PissedPrincess
06-18-2002, 05:39 PM
See, I think that's worse. A pitcher gets hit, Big Deal. Think Pedro cared about getting hit all those years in the NL? Hell no. BUT, knowing your teammates are gonna pay for your actions is a bigger punishment IMO.

JoeMcClenahan
06-18-2002, 07:18 PM
The DH is one of the best things that has happened to baseball since Dickie Thon. heres why. The DH ignites the game. Instead of there being an eight man lineup, with a nearly given out to the pitcher, you have an explosive lineup. It gives players like Edgar Martinez the chance to play baseball. He is one of the best hitters in the last decade, and would youhave seen him on a NL team? No, he cant field a ground ball. It gives players like Hank Aaron a few more years on their career, instead of having to call it quits because they cant dive as far for a ground ball as they used to. Or jump as high to catch a ball as they used to. What is wrong with that? HUH?

GiveHyzduashot
06-18-2002, 07:44 PM
The DH is one of the best things that has happened to baseball since Dickie Thon.

Only to fans who don't appreciate the game's history. I don't think anyone could call the DH the best thing to happen to the game without having a respect for the history.

You can like it and that wouldn't apply ... but anyone who says the DH is one of the best things to happen to the game is REALLY overstating things.

The DH ignites the game?!? That is really ridiculous. There are VERY few DHs who ignite baseball. I'd say there are two: Edgar Martinez and Frank Thomas. Even then, "igniting" the game is an overstatement.

I'm going to name a bunch of players, and you try and tell me they ignite the game. Fair enough? Brad Fullmer, Marty Cordova, David Segui, Jose Offerman, Carlos Baerga, Brian Daubach, Ellis Burks, Dmitri Young, Jacob Cruz, Raul Ibanez, David Ortiz, Brian Buchanan, M. Lecroy (he ignites the game so much I don't even know his first name), Nick Johnson, Jason Giambi, Scott Hatteberg, Ruben Sierra, Greg Vaughn, Rafael Palmeiro, Rusty Greer, Shannon Stewart. All have DH'd 15+ times. I'll give you Burks, Young, Giambi, and Palmeiro as players who are above average players. The rest are all mediocre to very poor.

And nobody wants to hear it, but if Edgar can't field a groundball as you have stated, then he should hang 'em up. Anyone who can't field a groundball shouldn't be playing. I know most will disagree with it, but it's how I feel. Fielding a baseball is the most basic part of the MLB, and if you can't do that, well, it's time to enjoy family life.

As far as Aaron, he DH'ed 200 some times. All in the last two years of his career. And he did not fair well, to say the least. He hit a grand total of 22 homers and hit around .220-.230. That's really not a productive year, or productive years. He, too, probably should have retired way before the DH.

JoeMcClenahan
06-18-2002, 10:57 PM
I guess this is where we agree to disagree.