PDA

View Full Version : All-Star format fails to deliver


imgreat95
07-02-2002, 01:29 PM
Smizik: All-Star format fails to deliver

Tuesday, July 02, 2002








Baseball refers to the early-July competition between the National and American Leagues as the All-Star Game, and then goes out and makes itself a liar by inviting players who are anything but All-Stars.

This happens because baseball insists on adhering to an archaic rule that states every team must have a representative in the game. The fallout of this stupidity is that almost every year players who absolutely do not belong in the game are invited and players who absolutely do belong are snubbed.

Rob Fick and Randy Winn -- whoever they are -- will be at Milwaukee in a week playing for the American League. Jim Thome and Magglio Ordonez probably won't. What kind of sense does that make?

Every year impostors like Fick and Winn are selected to the game. The Pirates, in fact, have been known to have one or two of their own selected without really belonging there. No one seriously believed Ed Sprague was an All-Star in 1999 or Carlos Garcia in 1994. There were there because they were the most deserving Pirates player, not because they were All-Stars.

Nothing of the kind can be said about the Pirates' latest All-Star.

Mike Williams belongs in the game.

Any notion that he was selected by Arizona Diamondbacks Manager Bob Brenly because baseball rules stipulate each team must be represented is nonsense. Williams ranks among the premier closers in baseball.

He didn't help in making his own case believable by resorting to a heavy dose of false modesty. He downplayed his chances of making the game last week and did the same yesterday before the Pirates' 2-0 loss to the Milwaukee Brewers.

"I didn't think I had a chance," said Williams, who will receive a $25,000 bonus for making the team. "I just looked around at the other guys in the league."

Williams didn't look hard enough. Like too many, he seems more impressed with velocity than results. Williams might not have much of the former, but he's top heavy with the latter.

Take away Eric Gagne of the Los Angeles Dodgers, who clearly has been the best closer in baseball, and Williams is second to none in the National League.

He is fourth in saves with 24, which is all the more impressive because the three pitchers in front of him are on winning teams. He, of course, is not. Gagne has 29 saves, John Smoltz of Atlanta has 27 and Danny Graves of Cincinnati 24. But the Dodgers had 50 wins, the Braves 51 and Reds 43. The Pirates only 36.

Williams has saved 64 percent of the Pirates' wins. No other closer was over 60 percent.

Of the five closers chosen for the game, Williams' earned run average of 1.95 was second only to Gagne's of 1.30. San Diego's Trevor Hoffman's was 2.30, Arizona's Byung-Hyun Kim's 2.47 and Smoltz's a whopping 4.53.

A closer's job is to keep runners off bases. Only Gagne, among the five closers selected, does a better job of that than Williams. Opponents have an on-base percentage of .185 against Gagne. Williams is second at .252, followed by Kim .280, Smoltz .299 and Hoffman .313.

Although the numbers were on his side, Williams wasn't a believer.

"I had plans to go elsewhere over the break," he said. "I'm glad to change them."

Fick of the Detroit Tigers and Winn of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays are two players who should be on vacation. Fick has 10 home runs and 34 RBIs and Winn six home runs and 39 RBIs. Those are distinctly not All-Star numbers, particularly when compared to those of Thome of the Cleveland Indians and Ordonez of the Chicago White Sox.

Thome is tied for first in the American League with 24 home runs. Ordonez is tied for fourth in RBIs with 60. They belong in the game. Fick and Winn do not.

In the National League, there's no disputing that Cincinnati's Adam Dunn is one of the best young players in the game. He has 15 homers and 48 RBIs. But he's not nearly as deserving as Larry Walker (.343 with 17 homers and 58 RBIs), Andruw Jones (19 homers and 53 RBIs) and Brian Giles (18 homers 48 RBIs).

But, if Brenly had added Walker, Jones or Giles instead of Dunn, he would have had to look elsewhere for a Cincinnati representative. The logical choice would have been Graves, third in the league in saves. But if Brenly had taken Graves, he likely could not have taken Kim, who is his guy and the least deserving of the five closers selected.

That wasn't going to happen.

It's called the All-Star Game. In reality, it's the Almost All-Star game.

pmeares17
07-02-2002, 01:46 PM
Winn six home runs and 39 RBIs

and a bunch of stolen bases dont forget that:biggrin:

imgreat95
07-02-2002, 01:56 PM
stolen bases are the most overrated stat in all of baseball.

Baseball Guru
07-02-2002, 02:27 PM
I heard this the other day and not sure what 4, but they said Winn was in the top 10 in 4 offensive catagories.....

Not to doubt you Shawn, but why do you say that the SB is the most overrated stat in baseball???
Just curious:confused:

pmeares17
07-02-2002, 02:51 PM
i wouldnt say its overrated anytime a guy is one base closer to scoring position its obviously a good thing?

Liter22
07-02-2002, 02:52 PM
I think this article makes a point it's stupid that all teams must be represented in the All Star games. There must some other players tht should come to the games. Pitchers were smubbed off the bat I can say Astico I mean the guy is 7-2 I think. Btw like Jamees just curious how are SB's overrated?:hmm: :confused: :biggrin:

imgreat95
07-02-2002, 03:02 PM
Allow me to rephrase that. Stolen bases, as a single stat itself, really mean nothing. I am not saying that stealing bases is not important, but I do believe that it has lost some of it's usefulness in today's game.

Let's take the case of Randy Winn. He has 15 stolen bases, and has been caught 4 times. Without having the time to go back and see where each of those stolen bases occured, and the context in which they occured, along with what happened during the rest of the inning, that doesn't mean anything to me.

In Winn's case, on 8 occasions when he stole a base, he failed to score a run. So, what does that stolen base really mean? Of the other 7, I do not know if he scored right after the stolen base, or during another inning, as I do not have the time to research that. But, for the case of this study, let's say that he did score all 7 of the other times which he stole a base. Now, let's say that on 5 of those 7 steals, he scored because the guy after him hit a homerun. That means that he would have scored wether he had stolen the base or not. That leaves him with 2 stolen bases which actually mean anything. (these numbers of course are all hypothetical after the 8 where he failed to score a run...)

Now, what about the 4 times he was caught?? What happens if the guy batting then hits a homerun?? Again, without looking at the game logs, I don't know if this was ever the case. But, I think that this shows exactly why stolen base totals mean nothing, unless you examine each steal on an individual basis.

Trots
07-02-2002, 10:11 PM
The fact that the All-Star system is flawed isn't exactly breaking news. It's also only an All-Star Game. The fact that some deserving players get left off is the game's most talked about aspect. That's not necessarily a bad thing for baseball. Someone should talk about the game once in a while.

It's similar to the polls in college football. We all know its nuts, but we all talk about it. It's all about debate and supporting your team/players.

As for stolen bases, I tend to think they are overrated as well. I know they do alter the game and put runners in better scoring positions, but they can also be accumulated at points in the game that don't mean a thing and there isn't a stat for number of times a player runs his team out of a potential rally.

Liter22
07-02-2002, 10:23 PM
Trots you make some good points. Btw has anyone ever told you that they look foward to your baseball posts:biggrin: :biggrin:

Trots
07-02-2002, 10:44 PM
Thank you, Liter22. I think you might be in the minority, though. Most people just cringe when they see I'm logged on.

Dirt Merchant
07-03-2002, 10:17 AM
I hate the one man per team rule myself ... but Winn hit close to .400 in June, if not slightly over that I believe ... I think he has been very solid this year - a hell of a lot more than Greg Vaughn ... close to 100 hits - over .300 AVG and 15 SB

Thome should be there - not Fick! How the AL HR leader isn't in the game is beyond me - Magglio should be there also

How did Piazza get in the game and not LoDuca? ... and I hate the freaking dodgers! LoDuca, Barrett, Santiago were my NL choices at C

just a fact of life ... politics in baseball and uninformed fans voting based on sportcenter highlights ... not much we can do 'bout that

What will be really funny is watching B.Y. Kim come in to pitch against 6 yankees ...

I was impressed that Joe Torre swallowed his nads and put Zito on the squad over Mussina ... tough call for him I'm sure but Zito belongs and so does Moose ...

Baseball Guru
07-03-2002, 08:01 PM
Yeah Vin Brian is right...The reason you never see us both online at the same time is because as soon as I see him on the online list, I log off:hahaha:

Ok, my take on DM's post....First off i like the fact that every team is represented...Even if there is a more deserving player it is nice and good for baseball and their fans to have at least 1 player from every team represented...
Like back in the early 90's when the Mets were horrible (kinda like this year:hmm:) anyways it was nice to see a Mets player in the AS game...At least that is how I feel.....

As for Piazza he got in the game because he was voted in not chosen by the managers...
I think he should be there and not because he is one of my favorite players.....I definitely think Lo Duca should be there....It's Santiago or Miller that dont deserve to be there.....

Lets look at some stats to help prove my point on Piazza...

HR's-Piazza has 15....No other catcher even has in the double digits....Miller has the next most with 9.....

RBI's-Piazza has 47...The next closest catcher has 38...Lo Duca and Santiago share that distinction....

OBP%- Piazza has a .370 OBP%, second only to Lo Duca's .377 among regular catchers....

AVG- Piazza is hitting .279 which is 4th among catchers....Lo Duca is 1st, hitting .323, Kendall is hitting .289, and Barrett is hitting .284...So besides Lo Duca, who is hitting well above everyone else. everyone is pretty equal....

Piazza's slugging % is .518 which is the best among all starting catchers......

So as you guys can see, Piazza even in an off year deserves to be an allstar just as much as anyone else....Lo Duca really did get screwed here....

Liter22
07-03-2002, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Baseball Guru
Yeah Vin Brian is right...The reason you never see us both online at the same time is because as soon as I see him on the online list, I log off:hahaha:

Well thats not nice James tisk tisk tisk! :nono::nono::nono::nono:

sheffield_rocks
07-04-2002, 07:26 PM
i think the 1 player for each team is good. After all we dont just wanna see a Yanks vs D'backs game..... and btw DM B.Y. Kim wont even probably be pitching to more than three Yanks so it doesnt matter and thats at the most....

sheffield_rocks
07-04-2002, 07:28 PM
and anyway the Padres may suck but that doesnt mean they dont have any good players....... they do have Trevor Hoffman and he DOES deseve to be an all-star and they have had Tony Gwynn in their past sucking.....